by thirdwitness 597 Replies latest watchtower scandals
thirdwitness,
I have briefly asked them repeatedly, so I won't briefly ask them again. I will link you to the most recent set of six brief questions of mine you haven't answered. You have already answered yes to #4 on another thread, so I will let that one stand as answered.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/117658/2112161/post.ashx#2112161
AuldSoul
Steve's question again, in case TW misses it:
Is it ok to be formally associated with the UN?
One of the benefits of being associated with the DPI of the UN are the annual conferences. For example, the one in 1998 was on Human Rights:
http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/annualconfs/51/51ngoconf.html
Don't you think that representatives of the WT Society attended that one? I would have hoped so. Yet, Thirdwitness would have us think that the WT representatives were ignorant of the criteria for association all this time. Doesn't seem plausible to me.
In answer to Steve's question, not according to JW dogma. It is not okay to voluntarily join ANY secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible, that is under judgment by God, or of which God disapproves. The OM/OD books couldn't possibly be referring to religious organizations, because "secular" is the opposite of "religious."
Steve definitely zoned in on the right point.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
Actually, it's pretty clear the WT representatives attended that 1998 NGO conference on Human Rights:
So, they went to the conferences when invited. I would hope that they used the time to make good contacts there for their concerns for Human Rights for their members. Thirdwitness, your arguments are that they just used their associate status for library priviledges and were ignorant of what all was involved. This is getting hard to believe. They weren't just using the library...don't you think they were networking too? But, to suggest they didn't know what was involved with their associated status is hard to believe.
BTW, the WT didn't quit membership as an associate of the DPI because of some sort of new audit. The scandal broke here on JWD first:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/10732/1.ashx
It was the resulting bad publicity that caused them to quit shortly thereafter.
thirdwitnoid,
People are watching...
steve
Is it ok to be formally associated with the UN?
What is so broad about this question that you refuse to answer Thirdwitness? If you can't answer it, that means we're right. Go ahead, answer it.
Is it ok to be formally associated with the UN?
Is it that you didn't see my answer or you didn't understand it. It depends on what is involved in the association with the UN. For example, lets say that a disaster struck a certain country and some branch of the UN disaster relief program was handling all relief efforts. Due to looting or other circumstances no one was to be allowed in the country without a NGO pass as an associate of this branch of the UN. Therefore, for the WTS to get medicine, food, water etc to the brothers and others they would have to fill out a formal application and be accepted as an associate to that branch and receive an NGO pass to get by the check points. Perhaps one of the requirements on the application (although this did not appear on the DPI application by the way) might be that the NGO share the ideals of the UN. Would it be wrong to apply for such associate status? While some of you will no doubt say yes because you have only one agenda, you must at least allow for the possibility that it might not be wrong and that Jehovah just might not judge the WTS in a condemnatory way. So rather than make a judgement based on what you think is right or not and condemn the WTS would it not be better to let Jehovah be the judge and remain loyal to Jehovah and His people.
Personally, I would not see anything wrong it. And if I was wrong then I believe it would be best to let Jehovah handle it as He sees fit. Who am I to assume and make great claims that the WTS is lying when the proof is lacking and when the paper trail of evidence shows otherwise.
This letter from the WTS written to one brother really hits the nail squarely on the head. It said:
What makes us always a bit sad is the fact that some of our brothers seem to have a stronger confidence in the media and reports launched by our opposers than to statements made by the Organization by means of which they have learned the truth. Of course we expect to be reproached, slandered and that any tiny occasion is used to put us in a bad light. We expect that and we are even happy about it because we endure this for Jehovah and his son (Matthew 5:11; 1 Peter 4:14). But we are hurt, when some of our brothers uncritically accept those presentations, getting set against Jehovah's organization or even letting themselves become a mouthpiece. Surely, no one of us wants to belong to those mentioned in Matthew 24:49 and 3 John 10. Of course, Satan would be happy if he urged us that far.
Our opposers always spread the idea that we do some secret operations while keeping the publishers ignorant. These accusations are likely as old as Christianity itself - with the difference that today modern media are used. That does not mean that we condemn these media in general which can be seen by the fact that the Headquarters and some branches run their own Websites. But warnings are not without reason, because through the Internet you can easily get in touch with the thoughts of apostates, which the Bible clearly warns against (2 John 8-11).
Especially in intellectual circles of society it is viewed as "chique" to doubt everything on principle and to insinuate bad motives everywhere. How bad would it be if that destructive-critical spirit was transferred to God's people. Paul said, love "believes all things" (1 Corinthians 13:7). That does not mean credulity but a positive confidence in Jehovah, his word and his organization. Of course, Jehovah's organization is not perfect. It was not in the first century and it was not at the time of the judges and kings of Israel.
Nevertheless, those putting their confidence in the leading of the men appointed by God were blessed.
One example for this is Absalom’s rebellion. He reproached God's anointed king David when he told those who came with a legal case to the king: “See, your matters are good and straight; but there is no one from the king giving you a hearing.” (2 Samuel 15:3).
Maybe he even gave examples of persons who seemed to have been treated unjustly. But Jehovah did not bless those believing Absalom but those sticking to David who was appointed by God and who had obviously Jehovah's blessings. Surely, we want to follow Ittai's example who firmly stood by Jehovah's anointed (2 Samuel 15:21).
We hope that these statements are helpful to you. In the confidence that Jehovah is giving us all the power to endure we are sending Christian greetings,
Your brothers
I fully concur with this letter. Since there is no real proof of deceitfulness or lying on behalf of the Bethel, and the evidence supports their version of events, should we not, if we call ourselves Christians, give our brothers the benefit of the doubt and not impute or imply bad motives? If you wish to judge them in a condemnatory way that is your right, but be aware that you are insisting your brothers are lying — no matter what explanation they offer and even though, when examining the facts, it becomes clear that they are not lying after all.
If you have read the claims of apostates and believed what they said, I would like to say this to you: At one time, I too was persuaded by the apostates to some extent. However, when I examined the evidence for myself I realized that it was apostates — in fact — who were in the wrong, not the brothers.
If you have been disfellowshipped or have disassociated yourself over the NGO matter, I would recommend that you consider the evidence honestly and humbly accept that your views on the matter may be wrong, and return to the Christian congregation. Be courageous and offer an apology for accusing the brothers of spiritual adultery and of lying. Tell them that you now realize there is not enough evidence to boldly (and unlovingly) call our brothers liars. There is no dishonor in admitting you were wrong. Write a letter stating these things and that you want to come back home to Jehovah's worldwide congregation. You will be glad that you did!
I am glad someone brought up this november 22, 1998 Awake. This gives us further opportunity to show how the apostates try to mislead us about what the Awake magazines intentions were.
Consider the last few paragraphs of the article. Do they promote the UN as a viable world government?
“Just as the Bible shows that the Creator is the source of the faculties that underlie human rights, it also informs us that he is the source of a world government that ensures them. This heavenly government is invisible but real. In fact, millions of people, perhaps unwittingly, pray for this world government when saying in what is commonly called the Lord’s Prayer: “Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.” (Matthew 6:10) The God-appointed Head of that Kingdom government is the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ.—Isaiah 9:6.This world government will succeed in creating a truly global and lasting human rights culture by, among other things, eliminating war forever. The Bible prophesies: “He [the Creator] is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth. The bow he breaks apart and does cut the spear in pieces; the wagons he burns in the fire.”—Psalm 46:9 How soon will this happen on a global scale? The Bible study program provided by Jehovah’s Witnesses includes a satisfying answer to this question. We encourage you to get acquainted with this program. If you care about human rights, you will not be disappointed.”The article leaves the reader to consider how the “Prince of Peace” Jesus Christ — not the UN — will create a “truly global and lasting human rights culture”. This is an appropriate end, for in the previous paragraphs the article shows how the UN has failed to accomplish it's Human Rights goals. First of all, this supposed “propaganda” for the UN says:
“For millions of people around the world, human rights violations are impossible to ignore. Their daily plight is still marred by discrimination, poverty, starvation, persecution, rape, child abuse, slavery, and violent death. For these victims the promising conditions spelled out in the towering stack of human rights treaties are a thousand miles away from the world they know. In fact, for most of mankind, even the basic rights listed in the 30 articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights remain an unfulfilled promise.”We wonder what kind of “propaganda” in a “UN publication” calls the UN's Human Rights declaration “an unfulfilled promise” for “most of mankind”. After this, it goes on to list several areas where the UN has failed and Human Rights continue to be violated world-wide. These areas are listed under subheadings entitled, 'Equality for All?', 'Children Without Childhoods', 'Choosing and Changing One's Religion', 'Sore Back but Empty Purse', 'Medical Care for All'. Each subheading headlines how the UN has failed to accomplish their goals in each of these areas. Of course, conspiracy theorists do not tell you about that part of the article.
While the article definitely informs us about the UN, it certainly does not support or promote it as a viable world government. The only thing it seems to be promoting is Jehovah's Witnesses' free Bible study program. Oh, but yes, it certainly does point to a world government as the solution to Human Rights violations — but that government is God's Kingdom, not the United Nations in New York. As the Watchtower Society have quoted many times in relation to the efforts of human governments:
“It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” —Jeremiah 10:23
