Association or Registration
Some opposers of JWs are quick to point out that the WTS uses the word registration when referring to their association with the DPI as an NGO . They point to these phrases in the letters that the WTS wrote explaining the situation:
We had been using the library for many-years prior to 1991, but in that year it became necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access.?
?Registration papers filed with the United Nations that we have on file contain no statements that conflict with our Christian beliefs.?
Then they point out that it was not a registration that took place but rather that the WTS applied for association with DPI . Their claim is that the WTS is hiding and attempting to mischaracterize it as a registration not an association. As one opposer stated, "They did not register, there is no such thing as a registrant/registrar relationship between NGOs and the UN / DPI .... The Society outrightly lies when they mischaracterize the nature of the relationship as one of registrant to registrar."
But does this argument hold any merit? Or are the opposers trying to split hairs over the meaning of words?
Exactly what did the WTS really say? Does the WTS attempt to mislead with their letters by mischaracterizing the nature of the relationship as opposers contend?
Please take note of two quotes from letters sent out by the WTS :
Quote #1: ?Moreover, NGOs are informed by the United Nations that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status."
Reasoning on the matter: If the WT was claiming that they were never associated with the DPI why would they quote information form the UN showing that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations?
Quote # 2: ?After learning of the situation, our membership as NGO was withdrawn and the ID card of the writer was returned.?
In this quote from one of their letters they speak of their membership being withdrawn. There is no mischaracterization here at all. But could the WTS have just as accurately used the phrase "our registration as NGO was withdrawn" as they did in some letters?
From the UN .org site comes this. http://www.un.org/reform/pdfs/hlp9.htm
UN SYSTEM AND CIVIL SOCIETY -
AN INVENTORY AND ANALYSIS OF PRACTICES
May 2003
Under the heading: Accreditation with ECOSOC :
Comes this quote about NGO association:
"It does, however, provide a number of practical benefits, such as obtaining passes to enter UN grounds, attend meetings and interact with governments or secretariat staff (as does being on DPI Register)."
And under the heading: Accreditation with the Department for Public Information
Comes this quote: "Currently about 1400 NGOs , mostly Northern, are accredited with DPI ...................... The DPI NGO Section has recently been weeding out the inactive ones from its register..."
Opposers of JWs have been trying to make such a big deal about the difference in the WT 's use of the word registration as opposed to association but apparently, according to this UN document, it is not as big of deal as they would lead us to believe. Apparently it can correctly be stated that the WTS registered as an NGO associated with the DPI . Then as they said, they later withdrew their membership or their registration.
Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.
by thirdwitness 597 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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thirdwitness
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thirdwitness
Quandary in italics.
Mary-this is the crux of the matter. Thirdwitness wishes us all to believe that the WTS was naive and was merely duped into thinking that they needed to sign documents in order to have a library card.
Thirdwitness has never claimed that the WTS was duped into signing anything. Thirdwitness claims only what the paper trail of facts show. The WTS did not sign an agreement to support the UN. The WTS did not sign an agreement to even disseminate information. The language of the criteria did indeed change between 1994 and 2001 we know for a fact.
I was always taught to read the fine print before I signed anything. The WTS always likes to sound authoritative, well researched, well informed. Yet they quickly signed documents without looking at all the ramifications first?
False statement. Please show us the agreement that the WTS would have signed. If you can't you make yourself a liar and you join the ranks of AlanF.
In fact, several higher ups signed? No discussion of how this would look? No investigation into the requirements? Just put their name on documents that had the heading of UN at the top?
Please show us this signed agreement. Or even the agreement that the WTS would have signed in 1991.
Obviously, they never thought anyone would find out. They had become bold in thinking that they were so far above the rank and file that they had carte-blanche to do anything they wanted. Who was there to "check their hand?"
What a crock of lies you put forth.
If this was no big issue, if it is great news that the WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with the UN, I ask again, why disfellowship people merely for talking about it? Does thirdwitness answer this? No. So obviously it IS A BIG ISSUE TO THE WTS, ONE THAT THEY ARE DESPERATELY TRYING TO PLAY DOWN AND COVER UP!!
Yes, thirdwitness can answer this very easily. The WTS does not df people for merely talking about the NGO/WT/DPI situation. They DF people for slandering the WTS as you just have.
The mere fact that thirdwitness posted a thread with this title shows that in his mind he knows many feel that the WTS is indeed prostituting itself. An organization that does things above board does not draw its actions into question nor need defenders.
The mere fact that you have to put forth lies to make your case proves that you know that the WTS did not committ spiritual adultery. I am merely pointing out those lies to others who might be reading and believing such falsehoods. You shouldn't have to resort to lies to prove wrongdoing.
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thirdwitness
Outlaws last few posts directed at me written in blue: 3rd Witness..AlanF is right,you are both gross and disgusting..WBTS did exactly what they were told to do,by the United Nations.That,makes you a liar too..I see no insult..You continue to defend the indefenceable..Without a doubt,you are one of the most dishonest posters this board has ever seen.....AlanF beat the crap out of you in your last debate with him..AlanF is gonna beat you up so bad on this thread,your Grandma`s gonna have a black eye..LOL!!...OUTLAW 3rd Witness it is your comments that are irrevelant..WBTS should have had nothing to do with the United Nations..Your going to get your dishonest ass beat up on this thread Troll..WBTS has no excuse,you have no defence..Your both screwed..LOL!!...OUTLAW 3rd Witness..You are selectivly stupid..That makes you dishonest..JW`s are to have nothing to do with the United Nations..Nothing!!..Do you know who made those rules Moron?..The WBTS..Imbecile!!...OUTLAW Jayhawk1..The picture you posted,of the whore riding the wild beast..The first time I saw that picture I couldn`t read yet,I was preschool.It was in the "Paradise Lost"book.My mom explained to me what the picture meant..She thought the Paradise book was a good childrens book..LOL!!.............................................3rd Witness..Have a look at that picture.What do you see?..A Whore riding the Wild Beast..Thats what JW children have been taught from childhood.Thats what I was taught..There is no excuse,the WBTS should have had nothing to do with the United Nations..I`m reading your posts,you still think you can defend the indefenceable..Do you have any idea how stupid you look to the rest of us?...OUTLAW Which I finally responded with these 2 lines.
Outlaw: Do you have any idea how stupid you look to the rest of us?...
Hey, Noah, Do you have any idea how stupid you look to the rest of us?...
Hey Christian fleeing to the mountains in 70 CE, Do you have any idea how stupid you look to the rest of us?...
3rd Witness..Wrong again..WBTS teachs any involment with the United Nations is wrong..Any involvement with the Untited Nations makes that religion a Whore..Thats really hard for you to understand eh?..Have you ever met a Jehovah`s Witness?..You certainly don`t know what they`ve been taught about having any association with the United Nations..You don`t know what your talking about,and your too dumb to learn..What are you doing here?..Can you play Patty Cake without drooling on yourself?..LOL!!...OUTLAW 3rd Witness..Congratulations!!..That was absolutly the stupidest reply I have ever recieved on this board..Really!..Not even Fred Hall posted anything that stupid..What does Noah,have to do with the WBTS association with the United Nations?.Nothing Moron.What does 70ce Christians fleeing into the mountains,have to do with the WBTS association with the United Nations?.Nothing..Those arn`t even strawmen.Those were the ramblings of an Idiot..What the F**K is wrong with you?..The WBTS should have had nothing to do with the United Nations..Nothing!!..Do you understand what No Association means?..It means NO ASSOCIATION!....You may never win a debate but you will always be recognized as an Idiot..Your not a Winner!..LOL!!...OUTLAW 3RD Witness you destroy your own arguement by opening your mouth..Only an Idiot would have started this thread.I guess you were the man for the job..LOL!!..I will ask you again: What does Noah have to do with,the WBTS association with the the United Nations?..What does the 70CE Christians fleeing into the mountains,have to do with the WBTS association with the United Nations?..We both know the answer,Nothing!..You really are a pathetic debater..And there`s a team of you..LOL!!..It takes you and your team,to be an Idiot?? ..LOL!!...OUTLAW 3rd Witness..Having trouble debating??..What does Noah,70CE Christians,or AlanF have to do with your ability to understand:"The WBTS should have had nothing to do with the United Nations"?..Go ahead pick a topic..Noah,70CE Christians or AlanF and explain what any one of them has to do with,the WBTS association with the United Nations?..Every time you say something stupid you will be called to account for it..You and your team of Idiots put your heads together and try to come up with an intellegent reply...OUTLAW Then he finally directs something approaching civil to me: 3rd Witness..That AlanF,what a great guy eh?..He even showed you how to beat him in this debate..I can hardly wait till you post your evidence straight from WBTS Head Quarters..LOL!!.....WBTS should have had nothing to do with the United Nations.For every true and faithfull Jehovah`s Witness,that really is the point..You know it,we know it,every faithfull Jehovah`s Witness knows it..Once again hillary-step cuts through the crap with wit:"Checkmate"..LOL!!...OUTLAW 3rd Witness..I have repeatedly asked you a question..Then you threw AlanF into the mix and I let you..I added him into my question to you..I realize it`s a hard question to answer,because if you do,you will look dumber than you do now..If thats possible..LOL!!..The question remains the same,are you going to answer it?.....If you trash our Board Mod`s again,I`m going to jump all over you...OUTLAW Me: Outlaw you apparently know nothing about the situation as shown by your posts above. You are a blind follower of AlanF and apostates. All you can do is throw insults. I'm sure that the lurkers can see the childish mentality of apostates such as yourself which is: just throw out childish insults and make false statements, no need to prove anything.
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uninformed
3W
If they didn't do anything wrong, how come myself, my wife and a lot of people I know got disfellowshipped for knowing about it, and not liking it?
If they have nothing to hide, why isn't there an in-depth Watchtower article about it?
If they have nothing to hide, why don't they tell the UN to release any and all records on the internet, or why don't they?
Brant Jones---My real name, what about yours?
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SWALKER
Yes, 3W, I was told by 2 elders that were very good friends of mine, one being the P.O. that if I even told anyone in the congregation about this I would be DF'd. I was told that I could not even give anyone the information and not say anything defamatory...just TELLING anyone would get me DF'd. Explain that! Why would there be anything wrong with going around saying that the WTS was an NGO registered with the DPI at the U.N. just so they could use the library? Why would that get anyone DF'd? Why don't YOU try it at your local K.H. and even at your next circuit assembly???? Let us know how it goes. Don't forget to tell everyone that you also post on this website and encourage others to do the same!!!
Swalker (By the way, most of the close friends I DID tell, faded very quickly and haven't been back!)
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thirdwitness
It is a sad thing that Brant Jones spent 45 years serving Jehovah and thru it all away because he took the word of apostates over the word of his brothers. The WTS did provide the information for you. They told you that they did not sign anything that compromised their principles and that has proven to be the truth when examining the application and accreditation forms but you would not accept the explanation of the brothers and insisted that they were lying wrongdoers. What do you expect?
It is sad that you believe that you wasted 45 years of your life serving Jehovah with Jehovah's people. The truth of the matter is that those are the only years you didn't waste.
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thirdwitness
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AuldSoul
Kaput: Another employee told him that full access could be gained by registering with the DPI .
Yes. That is roughly what they wrote to me as well. The WTS lied. Intentionally. They are deceiving people into believing that it has at some point been possible for non-governmental organizations to register as an associate to the UN/DPI. It never has been possible to do so. They did not register with the UN/DPI, nor in fact could they register, as there is no such thing as a program through which an NGO can register with the DPI in a way resulting in them being termed an associated NGO.
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., an NGO based in New York, USA, applied to join, associate with/to, partner to, and become part of the UN/DPI as an Associate member. They did not register with the UN/DPI, nor did they become a member or part of the UN. They became PART OF the UN/DPI.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
stevenyc
thirdwitnoid,
OLD ARGUMENT you're posting. Already dealt with.
Do you have anything new or poignant to offer?
steve
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AuldSoul
thirdwitness: Quote #1: "Moreover, NGOs are informed by the United Nations that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status."
Do you stand by the statement that the WTS did not become part of the UN/DPI based on this quote, even though the WTS has NEVER said they did not become part of the UN/DPI even when directly asked?
If so, please explain the fact that an NGO associating to the UN/DPI does grant privileges and special status with the UN/DPI. My question, which you have repeatedly ignored in favor of one you WANT to answer, is very simple.
While I acknowledge that the WTS did NOT become part of the UN, did they become part of the UN/DPI?
Nothing in the above quote indicates that the WTS did not become part of the UN/DPI. You yourself call what they did "associating to" and "joining", both of which MEAN becoming a part of, uniting with, partnering to, etc.
The DPI never refers to what the WTS did as registering. A registrant that was not part of the UN/DPI and had no special privileges or status could hardly be expected to adhere to the Criteria for Association. That criteria only applied to Associate members to the UN/DPI, i.e. to those non-governmental organizations that did have special privileges and status with the UN/DPI as credentialed Associate members, even though they did not have special staus or privileges or immunity relative to the UN.
You must know somewhere inside that you have missed something very simple but very important about this matter. You must sense that is the case. You didn't ask Oleg if the WTS became part of the UN/DPI. You only asked about the UN. They didn't become part of the UN, so he answered your question correctly. But they did become part of the UN/DPI, so you answered my question incorrectly.
You will figure it out one day. Your continued presence here gives me hope of that. But currently, you are still driven to maintain the deceits and lies of your masters. You can hardly be expected to be better than they are as long as you continue to learn from them. I hope one day you will look to someone else. (1 Peter 2:21, 22) But I am not going to bet anything on you doing so. The odds are long.
AuldSoul