by thirdwitness 597 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Thirdwitness, I admire your determination. We may never agree, but I admire your determination. And if you are several people posting on one account, I admire your group's determination.
What you say still does not change how the Watchtower viewed or views the UN though.
So all that means is that they've been heading down the slippery slope for awhile now. I'm inclined to think it's beens since their inception...but I digress.
So they promote the wild beast so they can bring it back around to the kingdom...yea...I get it. NOT.
The blurbs in WTW don't have anything to do with promoting the kingdom, but they still fulfilled part of the obligation to promote other UN associated NGO's. They promoted the UN and it's associated NGO's just like they promised.
Tell me thirdwitness. How does Babylon the Great ride the back of the wildbeast if not as UN associated NGO's? How does religion become a part of the UN if not through NGO association?
Please don't go off into how in the early 1900's some religious leaders said that the UN was the political expression of god's kingdom on earth. I want to know how they go about getting a ride.
Lea
This one is a little small, but I know I've seen this picture in JW literature. Is this not the Wild Beast (United Nations) and (Babylon the Great,/Harlot) false religion? Are these not tools of Satan according to the Watchtower?
Done4good: You're way off base here 3W. Not only does the WTS consider the UN "the disgusting thing that stands in an elevated place", a recent WT article pointed out that the "elevated" position it stands in will be in the form of REPLACEMENT of false religion at the beginning of the GT. If the WT goes as far as to consdier the UN a "replacement" for false religion, then that implies IT IS a "religion" of sorts, as far as the WT is concerned. Please don't try to use the excuse that somehow the UN is not currently in that status, so it dosen't matter. This is indeed how the WT views the UN. It is not THE POST OFFICE, FEMA, part of the SCHOOL SYSTEM, the JUDICIAL SYSTEM, WELFARE or SECTION 8. I said it before. You are intellectually dishonest.Is this the question you are referring to? I didn't see a question in it but anyway your reasoning is wrong. The UN is not a replacement for false religion. It will destroy false religion. The UN is not a religious organization.
The Watchtower of October 1st, 1995 provides a clear description of how we should view the United Nations:
“In Bible prophecy, human governments are often symbolized by wild beasts. (Daniel 7:6, 12, 23; 8:20-22) Hence, for many decades the Watchtower magazine has identified the wild beasts of Revelation chapters 13 and 17 with today’s worldly governments. This includes the United Nations, which is depicted in Revelation chapter 17 as a scarlet-colored beast with seven heads and ten horns. “However, this Scriptural position does not condone any form of disrespect toward governments or their officials. The Bible clearly states: “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves.”—Romans 13:1, 2. “Accordingly, Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are maintaining strict political neutrality, do not interfere with human governments. They never foment revolution or participate in acts of civil disobedience. Rather, they recognize that some form of government is necessary to maintain law and order in human society.—Romans 13:1-7; Titus 3:1. “Jehovah’s Witnesses view the United Nations organization as they do other governmental bodies of the world. They acknowledge that the United Nations continues to exist by God’s permission. In harmony with the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses render due respect to all governments and obey them as long as such obedience does not require that they sin against God.—Acts 5:29.”
No, it was not in the form of a question 3W, but you attacked my comment as a "stupid argument", with no factual backing. The fact still remains, that in spirit, the UN is an organization that (according to the WT), will "elevate itself" to the POSITION of WORSHIP, after it destroys false religion. Admittedly, I don't have the specific article, but it was much more recent than 1995. For reasons that are obvious to any cognisent person, the WT should not in any direct way, (i.e. becomming an NGO/DPI member), been associated with the UN organization, consdiering thier belief as to who the UN actually is. If the UN was aware of this teaching, I cannot imagine them as treating it as mere "disagreement". It is downright confrontational. Once again the fact remains that during the period of 1991-2001, no such inferences were made by the WT. Articles in the Awake magazine were clearly written to appease the UN, certainly NOT villify it as God's enemy. You're a smart guy, you need to learn to get passed the written "letter" of things, and see the "spirit" that is behind it. There's simply no more point in debating this.
j
Thirdwitness said in response to my question (Why were Witnesses in Malawi not allowed party cards?) :
‘ Because they were political party cards not library cards.’
Thanks for your response Thirdwitness, I do appreciate it. I have some problems though, and I would again be appreciative if you could address them.
I can’t see why it should really matter that much if someone in Malawi had a card saying they supported the party? It doesn’t mean they actually support the party, you support the party if you vote for them, they never had to vote for them. I’m on the voting register, I’m eligible to vote, I’ve never voted though, as it doesn’t mean I have to vote, but credit card and loan companies may look at the voting register to help them decide whether or not they want to give you loans or cards, so it’s useful to be on there, and the Society don’t say that you can’t do this, I asked an elder if it was ok, and he said it was fine. In some countries you have enforced voting. The Society doesn’t tell you to go to prison and refuse to go to polling stations, they let you go to the polling stations, but ask that you don’t actually vote, just spoil the ballet or something, so why was a Party Card so bad?
A Party Card may have convinced the Party that they showed support for them, but it didn’t necessarily mean that the individual carrying the card supported them, as they didn’t vote for them. Similarly, the Society had to submit articles to the UN that had to convince them that they supported them. Even if this did not necessarily mean that did support the UN as you believe it didn’t, surely you can agree the purpose was to convince the UN that they supported them?
Do you realise that some Organisations have had applications to become DPI associates rejected? This isn’t a recent thing, this has been happening since 1991/2 when the Society joined. Why do you think they were rejected? There MUST be a reason. The UN/DPI aren’t just going to be picking the names out of a hat, if they are rejecting Organisations, it would seem like they would only want associates who they believe are going to be of benefit to them. So, surely the articles the Watchtower Society provided the UN/DPI with, convinced them that the Watchtower Society would help them to spread information about their charter, and thus be a support to them?
Do you disagree? If so, why?
Jayhawk1..The picture you posted,of the whore riding the wild beast..The first time I saw that picture I couldn`t read yet,I was preschool.It was in the "Paradise Lost"book.My mom explained to me what the picture meant..She thought the Paradise book was a good childrens book..LOL!!.............................................3rd Witness..Have a look at that picture.What do you see?..A Whore riding the Wild Beast..Thats what JW children have been taught from childhood.Thats what I was taught..There is no excuse,the WBTS should have had nothing to do with the United Nations..I`m reading your posts,you still think you can defend the indefenceable..Do you have any idea how stupid you look to the rest of us?...OUTLAW
Lets see where we are now.
Thirdwitnoid acknowledges the following, (whether new or before joining this site)
The Watchtower Society applied to associate itself with the UN / DPI in 1991 and submitted its evaluation form: POST 445
The application was granted in 1992
The grounds for acceptance in association with the UN /DPI are: POST 473
- the NGO must support and respect the principles of the Charter of the UN and have a clear mission statement with those principles
- the NGO must be recognized nationally or internationally
- the NGO should operate solely on a not-for-profit basis and have tax-exempt status
- the NGO must have the commitment and the means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents about UN activities
- the NGO should have an established record of continuity of work for a minimum of three years and should show promise of sustained activity in the future
- the NGO should have a satisfactory record of collaboration with UN Information Centres/Services or other parts of the UN System prior to association
- the NGO should provide an audited annual financial statement, conducted by a qualified, independent accountant
- the NGO should have statutes/by-laws providing for a transparent process of making decisions, elections of officers and members
(1)Each year an associate has to re-accredit itself, this means confirm ID passes and representatives, Chief administration officer, and associate interests: POST 434
(2)Every four years associated NGOs are required to submit: a new completed evaluation form, which is sent to all associated NGOs at the beginning of the four year period, a quadrennial report of their UN-related activities, at least three samples of their UN-related information materials: POSTs 440. 462, 450
We know that the watchtower knew the rules because they submitted submitted the quadannual evaluation form including samples which are on UN file(2), and they changed their interests on the accreditation form which is also on file(1): POSTs 434, 450
That association continued till 2001
The termination was in response to a news report for 'The Guardian' a British newspaper
(Note: ReEvaluation years for associated NGOs: 2002-2006; 1998-2001; 1994-1997; 1990-1993)
The last evaluation that the watchtower would have submitted would be for the period Jan 1998- Dec 2001. They would also have submitted an evaluation form for jan 1994 - dec 1997.
The 1998 - 2001 evaluation criteria was as show above, and restated by Paul Hoeffel in 2001:
Paul Hoeffel, in a letter dated 11 October 2001 satated:
By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the Untied Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities.
steve
Tell me thirdwitness. How does Babylon the Great ride the back of the wildbeast if not as UN associated NGO's? How does religion become a part of the UN if not through NGO association?
There are many ways. By coming an NGO with the ECOSOC thus be in consultative status with the UN. By siding with the UN in their resolutions and military actions. Well, Basically the answer is By exalting the UN as the hope for man to solve its problems. I think you probably know this already.
done4good: Articles in the Awake magazine were clearly written to appease the UN,
Then you must be also claiming that article written prior to become an NGO with DPI were also written to appease the Un and the WTS had at least a 17 year plot to do so. Also they continue to write articles to appease the UN despite the fact that they are no longer an NGO with DPI. This is why your claim holds no water. That and the facts that this chart shows:
http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/charts/mankindshope.html
Yea OUTLAW, that is one of my favs in the collection of graphics I have.
I used this particular one on my yahoo apostate profile back in the days of my 'stormtrooping' in the jw chatrooms...that WE APOSTATES ACTUALLY 'CREATED'...LOL!!! The way the justified clicking on the room and STAYING was that it said 'jw chatroom'. Isn't that a hoot? LOL Believing what you read on the evil internet? LOL
I sure miss those days. That picture alone sent many out of the room. Yet also, many wondered why I would use it. LOL!!! I told them everything they need to KNOW is out there for investigation. "It's up to YOU to do just that. I will guide you."
My profile was stuffed with resouceful sites and quick data to click on. I received many pm's with questions and inquiries. I basically said to them that it was best they do their OWN RESEARCH with the tools and sites provided on my profile.
Before I found my way to yahoo chatrooms, I plowed through another jw room on about.com. THOSE days were the best, ever. Some of those jws are now here and left WT for good. Not being vain, just saying.
And I couldn't have done it if there weren't fabulous sites such as ProminentBethelite, TomTalley, blondie, freeminds, silentlambs, watchtowerinformationservice, Kent, Norm, QUOTES, Alan, Farkel, rebel, and a host of others that I was able to copy, cut and paste ALL OVER THE NET. You really have no idea how far your work has reached just by this method and that of taking it offline and distributing key points on fliers. THANK YOU.
And least I forget to thank the WATCHTOWER.ORG site where it was easy to copy and paste up litter-ature for the lurkers and seekers to question and debate...since watchtower.org provides no where on their site to do so.
THANK YOU!
Regarding the terroristic PARADISE LOST book published by the WATCHTOWER BIBLE TRACT SOCIETY. It's an absolute abomination.
It's a wonder if the government is even aware of just how terroristic, in nature, ALL WATCHTOWER RELIGIOUS PUBLICATIONS truly are.
Love you OUTLAW!!! {{{ kisses on the cheek }}}
sKally
