Question about shunning from someone who has never been a JW....

by whyizit 111 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Gunshy

  "My brother had a relative through marriage who was accused of raping little girls, but because there was only one witness with a clear memory of the incident, nothing was done to him."

  Hi again, Tammy,

  Just one more question...

  Is there any proof of wrongdoing?

  The reason I ask is because anyone can accuse. Proving something is another story.

  Imagine a world where we could have people killed merely by accusing them without proof?

  I'm sure the word "proof" stings, as one can imagine how it would. Yet, without proof, unfortunately, a person is then only accused.

  Jesus himself was accused of many things, for one, being "out of his mind". Yet, when all the proof was offered, he was impaled wrongly merely to appease the ones that felt defrauded (Pharisees and Sadducees). A case was built on mere accusation.

  A sad fact is that without proof, criminals cannot be convicted. The reason is because not everyone accused is a criminal. Isn't that true?
• 

  jgnat

  BUT, if you read the rest of my post, I suggested that many of these same "unreceptive listeners" heard the lifesaving news only a short time later at Pentecost. Many responded. A properly shunning witness of Jehovah, would he have made that speech at Pentecost, to a crowd who had screamed "stone him!" only a short time ago? WHY did God give them another chance?

  Ah1 Very good! Would a follower of Christ consider an unrepentant wrongdoer or one disassociated from the congregation a "receptive listener"?

  Are you saying that by applying a label, such as "prostitute", "thief" "smoker", or "disassociated" that we can assume they are unreceptive?

  It's already been determined some here are not receptive listeners.

  By you, I assume. By what measure?

  Another question along the same line, how many times are we to forgive a man? Does Jehovah God forgive the same number of times? Is there any evidence that God shuts up his ears once someone sins?
• 

  stevenyc

  A Jehovahs Witness feels exactly as you do. One of Jehovah's Witnesses does not feel the way you do. When you understand what that means, you'll understand the difference between a name and a title.

  Gunshy, I was a Jehovahs Witness for over twenty years, so I know exactly what you are saying, I'm just trying to get a reseason why you think it scriptuarly. Because, it is a false teaching.

  I'm off on vacation for a couple of days, so have a good weekend, and maybe we can pick this up later.

  Take care.

  steve
• 

  gymbob

  Gunshy~

  Just so i'm not confused here, are you saying that Matt. 10:14 proves that DF'ing and DA'ing is scriptural? You sure are reading alot into "dust-shaking".....I don't even think the Watchtower uses that scripture to support disfellowshipping, (I could be wrong on that point, but if the society did, they would be taking the scripture out of context too.) No reasoning person would come to that conclusion from reading that verse. Can you honestly sit there and say you think this is what Jesus was talking about? If so, he didn't make it very clear, or even elaborate on the matter.

  Have you read Matt. ch.10?? It has nothing to do with DF'ing or DA'ing. These are clear instructions Jesus is giving for how to carry on in a ministry, and, "shaking dust off your feet" when someone doesn't want to listen, is just a small part of what he said. Jesus also told his apostles to, "raise dead persons, make lepers clean, expel demons". (Vs. 8) If "ONE OF" Jehovah's Witnesses EVER raised somebody from the dead or cleaned up a leper I think we all would have remembered!

  The fact of the matter is that if you decide to start thinking for yourself and come to the conclusion that Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT who they claim to be, there is NO WAY they will let you leave in a honorable way. They will twist some scripture around and apply it to you, or just plain tell lies about what type of evil person you are if you leave. I've seen it too many times, and am embarrassed to say, did it myself. Most people on this site know this, it's what witnesses do, and it's one of the big reasons we left. It's unchristian, uncaring, and frankly disgusting.

  I spent a few DECADES as a witness, pioneering and in Brooklyn too, and I know that the Watchtower publishing Co. is just that, and nothing more.

  There's a old saying, "Don't pee down my back and tell me that it's raining".
• 

  Gunshy

  I spent a few DECADES as a witness, pioneering and in Brooklyn too, and I know that the Watchtower publishing Co. is just that, and nothing more.

  Hi Gymbob,

  That's an awful long time to spend with a mere publishing company... at how little income a month? I guess if I thought that's all it was, I'd feel pretty foolish admitting on a public message board that I wasted "decades" of my life with something so meaningless. Or, do you mean that it took you decades to realize this? I'm a little confused.
• 

  mrsjones5

  I'm a little confused.

  No you're not. You're trying to make him look stupid and it didn't work. Actually it backfired on you.

  Josie
• 

  plmkrzy

  Gunshy

  I'm curious, plmkrzy about a few things.

  One has to do with the prostitute comment.

  One - do you know any religious leader anywhere that openly, in public has prostitutes washing his or her feet? I'm curious because of your statement

  My comments were made in sarcasm, not to be taken literally…in a sense. My point was that whatever society we live in, is what decides what is proper and what is not. Or I guess I should say what is “socially acceptable” and what is not. Regardless of what behavior a person exhibits after they get done washing your feet is beside the point. If someone is behaving in a manor that is considered, to whom ever, to be unchristian we don’t have to go barhopping with him or her anymore then we have to practice shunning. I doubt that Jesus would have “shunned” a prostitute for continuing to be a prostitute anymore then he would have partied with her. He may have prayed for her.

  Do you believe that “all” Jehovah’s Witnesses in all countries practice shunning?plm
• 

  Gunshy

  Would your statement be considered judgemental and insulting, Josie?

  Hi Plmkrzy, I'm not sure what "all" Jehovah's witnesses do earthwide, but I'd dare say I'd hate to visit a Kingdom Hall where nonrepentant wrongdoers are considered to be in good standing.

  I'd say that not "all" Jehovah's witnesses do in fact practice what you call shunning, but then again, humans haven't reached a state of perfection yet, have they?
• 

  jgnat

  Welcome back, Gunshy. Did you have a good weekend? I patiently wait for your response to my questions. I can't think of a better way to hit my 10,000 post than a lively discussion on the issues of shunning with you.
• 

  Gunshy

  Also, plmkrzy,

  In regard to barhopping, consider the following scriptural reference to words of Jesus himself and then ask yourself where "confirmed drunkards" would be... in a bar or in a Kingdom Hall? Where would the "fellow slaves" be found - in a bar or in a Kingdom Hall? Who really are the evil slaves? Where might they be found and would they be building up their "fellow slaves" or publicly criticizing them?*

  (Matthew 24:48-51) "But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49

  and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and *will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. . . .