Question about shunning from someone who has never been a JW....

by whyizit 111 Replies latest jw friends

  • anewme

    Good reasoning ability Whyizit!

    Sure wish I had some of that back in 1972

  • stevenyc
    If a person is carrying that name as a registered, card carrying, full fledged, dedicated, baptized follower and imitator of Jesus Christ, then responsibility comes with that baptism to do whatever possible to remain chaste in conduct.

    Okay, I'm a little confused. Can you direct me to the scripture which tells us to be a " registered, card carrying" disciple?


  • Gunshy

    I can't.

    Can you show me a scripture that even remotely implies that getting baptized and following Christ's example in conduct isn't necessary for salvation?

    (1 Peter 4:17-18) . . .Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God? 18

    "And if the righteous [man] is being saved with difficulty, where will the ungodly [man] and the sinner make a showing?"
  • stevenyc
    Can you show me ;a scripture ;that even remotely implies that getting baptized and following Christ's example in conduct isn't necessary for salvation


    Luke 23: 42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. 43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."


  • Gunshy

    That was quite clever. The man dying next to Jesus showed a remarkable desire to follow Jesus and be teachable. I'd say he was a dedicated follower of Christ, wouldn't you?

    The pressure of facing death may or may not have contributed to his actions. Judas was also facing death and didn't behave the same way.

    Do you know what the difference was between the man next to Jesus and Judas, Steve?

    Judas didn't realize he was about to die.

    (Isaiah 26:9) With my soul I have desired you in the night; yes, with my spirit within me I keep looking for you; because, when there are judgments from you for the earth, righteousness is what the inhabitants of the productive land will certainly learn.

  • stevenyc
    The man dying next to Jesus showed a remarkable desire to follow Jesus and be teachable.

    Yep, I'd agree. As they say, 'you never find an agnostic in a rat hole".

    As regards Judas, he died of a bad conscience.

    The issue as regards this thread is the practice of shunning as directed by the watchtower society. And, with that in mind, reflect on whether it is a Christian attitude to completely shun a person. And also, the question has to be added; what constitutes a disfellowshiping act, who decides this, and what are the consequences for people who where disfellowshiped for either the wrong reasons or 'old light'.


  • hopie

    What a excellent question, This format the organization has on disfellowshipping has always bothered me when I was a JW. (over 40 years).

    Yes, It is imperative if you want to be a true christian to choose your association that reflex your christian principles. Apostle Paul admonished the individual christians to mark the one in the congregation that is not obedient to the word and stop associating with him. 2 Thess. 3:14. It was an individual choice.

    Where I disagree with the JW's is when they cross the line by assuming that responsibility for you and your conscience. The elder's decide for you behind closed doors, and no one knows why someone is put on probation or disfelloweshipped. When ancient Israel judged individuals, it was at the city gates, and all Israel was able to see for themselves if justice was carried out. This is why the JW's are terrified with this mal- treatment. Reminds me of the gestopo Hitler days. My understanding is only Christ is the judge on everlasting life, not inperfect man. The poor JW thinks they are being judged now if they will live forever. Reminds me of what Apostle Paul told some of the christians back then, you are judging before your time.


  • gymbob


    How does shunning, "serve to protect Jehovah's name' when someone just decides they want to leave the witnesses and are DA'd?? GYMBB

  • Lilycurly

    Well it doesn't, they just hope that the shunned persons will be so desperate to talk to their families again that they will be guilt-triped back into the congregation. And real christian love for you.

  • greendawn

    Sspo that refers to how the individual was to treat an unjust brother it doesn't refer to an exclusion by the entire community.

    The WTS also expels people for trivial reasons or for altogether non biblical reasons eg for dissenting with their leadership, with their ideology.

    No doubt the early Christians were not so trigger happy in expelling members.

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