"Unbelieveable. I loved the look on the old dudes face when you asked why there should be an appeal if the decision was guided by holy spirit." Coach from "Cheers"
New Video of DF announcement at door
Here is a tidbit more for you. Schne_belly posted that his mother has also recently been DF'd. There is a mindset in the JW Elder community that if someone is DF'd they will come to their senses and crawl back pleading to comeback. Three days after they announced her DF at the Kingdumb Hall they were knocking on her door wanting to know if she was ready to come back.
I have two comments:
1. Serious: I don't really feel sorry for the elders at the door. As Rebel said, "he is responsible for his own behavior." I guess for me I feel more pity for he, and others like him, that they are so blinded by "Mother."
2. Not-so-serious: I don't understand how the WTS can be against goatees and beards, but let brothers have "Magnum P.I./1970's porno" mustaches.
I've gotta take you to task here. Panic was giving a very objective analysis of the video. The fact is, the cameraman comes across as flippant and intimidating to ANYONE who does not understand the context. Any non-JW watching this would certainly NOT understand the context and the sinister undertones of the elders visit. We do, because we have the essential background information. The simple fact is that anyone not understanding the context would see the "elders" as the sympathetic characters here. We understand the reasons the cameraman would be pissed off and angry, but any non-JW would not so from an objective analysis, Panic was dead-on. The video comes across as gonzo journalism and the cameraman seems to be having way too much fun. I think this actually detracts from the horrible reality of disfellowshipping and may actually disinform any non-JW about the reality of the situation within the cult. It would be far more powerful to tape a formal DF announcement from the KH platform and then have a serious interview and analysis of the DFd persons emotional reaction to the situation and the impact it is having on him/her. The fact is, I really enjoyed the tape but thats because as an apostate, I understand the context and background. Show the tape to a non-JW, the public we are trying to educate about the WTBS, and I would imagine that a) they would think it was a college prank or b) it was being submitted to americas funniest home videos. We both know these "elders" are just a couple brainwashed dorks with little education doing the dirty work of their corporate masters in brooklyn. They certainly dont come across as malevolent evil monsters, in fact they remain calm and collected throughout despite the pitiful bumbling through the bible. An objective non-JW viewer certainly wont perceive them as evil messengers. To this end, the video fails to capture the reality of the DFing horror and reduces it to cartoon status. Lets all try to be detached and objective here and analyse this from the perspective of the non-JW, who really needs to be informed of the reality of this destructive practice.
I have a different perspective. I think it is obvious whose home this is and that these men are on his property reading that verse to his house. Have you listened to what that Scripture says that they were applying to schne_belly?
If I walked up to your house and didn't open my Bible, but just said to you:
"Three brothers met and decided that since you are teaching doctrines other than what Jehovah's Witnesses teach and you don't assent to the healthful words of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, you are puffed up with pride, not understanding anything. You are mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, violent disputes about trifles. You are a man corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth."
I don't really see how anyone would be surprised if you (1) didn't take me seriously, (2) treated me like I was a jerk, (3) ordered me off your property, or (4) set the dogs loose on me.
I don't mind being taken to task. These guys were being complete assholes behaving exactly as directed by the Governing Body. They took a tone of helpful concern to spew hatred and put the flourish on a hateful and wicked act.
If someone thinks schne_belly was a jerk in the film, IMO they didn't listen to what was being said. In which case, they aren't judging what happened, they are judging from general preconceptions about demeanor. There is no way someone actually watching the video could mistake schne_belly for the aggressor, IT IS HIS HOUSE.
auldsoul-Here is a comment off my blog from someone who watched the video. A workmate of mine.
What can you say?
WOW, I am baptist and any family that would stop associating with FAMILY
is past the point of return, in my life I could NEVER see anything like that,
I know of a few JW at work, but knew nothing of the religon, only that our pastor calls it a false reglion and a cult, now i see, I am suprised the two "elders" would say anything on camera, the old guy obviously was aware and said VERY little, the younger guy did not seem to care, this is definately shocking, send that to watchtower and see what thier response is.....
you can count on me to be a friend, even if you had SEX oh my gosh that's so horrible, I have been divorced am I going to die??? eventually but not because of that, had i not been divorced, i would have NEVER met Summer, and have two great kids,
I finally watched the video and I must say I'm sick to my stomach. Oh my God, the stress of leaving the God-forsaken religion is going to kill me.
As I watched my stomach began to ache and my head felt woozy and I almost (and I'm serious here) almost couldn't finish watching the video due to my extreme uncomfortableness.
What a crappy religion to put people in situations like this. How unloving and unkind, how despiccable that they really think this is what being a true christian really is.
Thumbs up for video taping this. I hope I have the courage to stand up strong for myself if the time comes.
"You WANT to believe that, so you can tear me down as a person for having a different opinion than you"
"Im sorry you cant handle someone believing different than you."
You're wrong here PanicPerson....I enjoy a good debate! You're whining is not a debate---good or otherwise. If this is "so trivial" to you--why pursue it? I still find your observations and reasoning extremely weird...(my opinion.)
"After all apparently you have a temper problem just as you insinuate in your profile."
I will be the first to admit loud and long--that I am angry at all the years I wasted as a JW, and for all the pain I caused my children being raised as JWs as well as my entire family of nonJWs that I put through some tough times with my JW thinking. I have every right to feel this way.
Bringing this up does not embarrass me or make me feel bad, as you were probably hoping it would do. The experience deeply affected me especially when I discovered the WTS was a farce and has ruined my family when I "joined up" and then when I left. I got it both barrels...so I DO have many issues with this lying, fraudulant and deliberatley deceptive form of religion. I couldn't just skip away and be all sweet and smiley-faced as you did.
This channelled anger has given me cause and impetus to fight for the JWs still trapped in this disgusting farce and point out each and every flaw that I can find against whatever rotten practices the WTS use and claim is "from God". They should be held accountable for all the harm they have deliberately caused and all the damage they have inflicted to all those that have left and are still IN!
It's not like trying a new food and then deciding that you don't like it very much and stop eating it. Maybe you weren't as "loyal and obedient" (tm) as a JW as I was for 30 years....it just might make a difference in your casual and Pollyanna attitude when you see things through different dynamics and experiences. For all I know you were a JW for a year (I have known quite a few like that)...and you happily whistled your way out with no repurcussions....you didn't "say" on YOUR profile.
IMHO, WHATEVER the "cameraman" did or did not do---has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what those elders were there to do (and did)!! If you are focusing on any other aspect you are blindly missing the entire meaning of the piece.
It sucks. One of the brothers that went over questions with me when I was 12 came here to tell me he wouldn't talk to me again unless I did what the Governing Body says. I still have not gotten Scriptural answers to ANY of the questions I have asked them, only the repeated mantra "wait on Jehovah."
Over the past year I have been told I was pushing ahead puffed up with pride so many times, but I couldn't get them to show how I was pushing ahead of the Bible. I was only pushing ahead of a group of men who routinely ignore the Bible in favor of their own perverted opinions.
But I love that brother. He acted out the part in the script the GB wrote for him to a tee, which means he behaved like a complete ass (<---read "unreasoning animal"). They seem to believe they don't need to base their responses and actions on anything more substantial than the Governing Body's directives, which would put those directives as functionally superior to the Bible.
Listener, you can stand up strong for something far more valuable than yourself. I can tell that, like me, your life is worth less to you than the lives of certain other people. For those other people I can stand against anything up to death, although I'd rather stand up for life. That is really what you would be standing up for; you would be showing that you really do value this precious brief moment of conscious existence you get to enjoy. What a beautiful example for those you love.
Honestly, I think that is a scene going on over and over every day. The main thing missing a ignored, was logic. The Witness men showed none and when they tried to reason with them, they rejected all logic. Which is a normal Witness. What they feel is right, is right beyond all reason and discussion.