I don't pray and I cringe when I am at my parents and my dad says prayer before we eat. Usually my brother and I try to make the other scream out in pain by pinching each other or pulling each other's hair (very discreetly of course). Maybe I should put this post in the "Good Memories" thread.
Do you still use Jehovah's name in prayer assuming you still pray?
by JH 110 Replies latest jw friends
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JH
Funny, but I never did pray before a meal. I don't pray before a shi* either. And they are just as good.
But I used to pray about once a day when I was a JW. I prayed for more serious things than food.
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jaffacake
All these other manuscripts from the 1300's agree from the New World Translation: J1-14,16-18,20,22-24
Then why does the Kingdom Interlinear Translation not agree?The Proclaimers book page 610 says "This is no ordinary interlinear: the integrity of the text is preserved....Thus the interlinear feature of this book is no translation at all."
The oldest NWT J-reference is J2 dated 1385, bot most are very much more modern.
The most common reference is J7 a Hebrew version published by Elias Hutter in 1599. The NWT footnote reference tells us that the basis for inserting Jehovah in a particular verse was based on this 1599 Hebrew translation of a Greek Manuscript. The Greek it was translated it from is dated between 301 and 400 CE and reads Kyrios (Lord). Therefore the Greek interlinear correctly uses the word Lord. The Kindom interlinear provides evidence of Kyerios being used in every ancient Greek manuscript, some from as early as 200CE.
All Scripture is inspired of God and is beneficial quotes Frederick Kenyon on page 319 "the interval between the dates of composition and the earliest extant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for doubt that the scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed."
Yet supposition, Hebrew and Trinitarian versions are the sole support for making alterations and undermining the reliability of EVERY ancient Greek manuscript. Yet the NWT elevates these modern vesions, at least in these 237 instances, to the level of inspired scripture.
Rather than reading books on this, let is both check the references ourselves. The local PO dropped off the 2 documents I need today, Kingdom Interlinear and NWT Reference Edition. Here is a taster of what you can discover:
J18 Title Page reads as follows:
THE NEW TESTAMENT OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST
TRANSLATED OUT OF THE ORIGINAL GREEK: AND WITH THE FORMER TRANSLATIONS DILIGENTLY COMPARED AND REVISED, BY HIS MAJESTY'S SPECIAL COMMAND.
The Trinitarian Bible Society - 7 Bury Place, London, W.C.1
Do you really seek truth, or something to support the beliefs you already have?
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googlemagoogle
inquirer, you ad hominem attacker you! ;-) or was that a red herring? have to check...
i'd say one of the main characters in greek scriptures is the self made "apostle" paul. if using god's name would be that important, surely he'd mentioned it somewhere in his letters, wouldn't he?
btw, you quote the NWT to "prove" that jesus used the name "jehovah" when quoting hebrew scripture. but i suppose you know that that's not in the manuscripts. -
MidwichCuckoo
I totally agree with AK - Jeff. I always felt very uncomfortable using God's name. So disrespectful.
Amazing....Are there things that we should avoid saying when we pray to Jehovah?
Yes, there are. We should avoid saying things in our prayers that sound overly familiar and suggest to others (in public prayers) that we are being disrespectful. Such expressions as "Good afternoon, Jehovah" and "Give our love to Jesus" are not fitting, nor are humorous comments or even jokes in our prayers. Why?
For one reason, when such expressions are used in public prayer, they are likely to shock or offend those listening. (Romans 14:21) But there is a deeper reason why like expressions should be avoided, even in our private prayers. These are expressions that we use in conversation between equals. When used in prayer, they suggest a lack of reverence and respect, and they give the impression that the one thus praying has forgotten his total insignificance in comparison with Jehovah. Genesis 18:27; compare Luke 18:9-14. WT 6/1/85 p. 31
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Evanescence
I use, "Father" and "God"
Evanescence
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MidwichCuckoo
....and in answer to JH, -
"Did the Watchtower Hijack God's name, making anyone believe they have the right religion because they use the Divine Name".
I think that they believe they are chosen as they bear HIS name. See -
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jaffacake
Why did the Divine Name never exist in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament) until 1385CE?
Who was it that inserted the Divine Name in 1385, 1599, and subsequently, and with what motives?
These are some of the questions I am addressing in my research. My main tools are Watchtower Bibles.
Did you know the reference material within the Watchtower's own current Bible versions provide the most convincing evidence of all?
In my view, this is one of the greatest Watchtower scandals of all, and one of those easiest to prove with their own current publications.
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inquirer
@jaffacake
Why did the Divine Name never exist in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament) until 1385CE?
Who was it that inserted the Divine Name in 1385, 1599, and subsequently, and with what motives?
These are some of the questions I am addressing in my research. My main tools are Watchtower Bibles.
Did you know the reference material within the Watchtower's own current Bible versions provide the most convincing evidence of all?
In my view, this is one of the greatest Watchtower scandals of all, and one of those easiest to prove with their own current publications.
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Inq - I could give you examples of writings that use "Halleuljah" or "IAO" LONG BEFORE 1385 CE!
George Howard believes that these "J references" (as what the Watchtower calls them) is a recession of the original Hebrew goespel of Matthew! He has written a book about it that is out of print from amazon, but you can get it here: http://www.centuryone.com/4470-0.html I haven't read the book from him, but I have read many quotes from him. He does admit there is no way of proving it, but it does sound feisable. So, maybe they had a good reason for it with these Hebrew manuscripts from 1385 -- There Hebrews! They know more about the divine name than anyone!
There's been a massive decline of the divine name since 300 BC, I am not surprised you think it's a scandel! Too many people think a long those lines.
Answer me this: Why is the name "Yahweh" referred to so much in the Catholic New American Bible so much in the 'New Testament?" I thought it was Jesus in the NT -- that is the most popular/usual understanding!
Examples: John 15:15
6 Slaves . . . friends: in the Old Testament, Moses (Deut 34:5), Joshua (Joshua 24:29), and David (Psalm 89:21) were called "servants" or "slaves of Yahweh"; only Abraham (Isaiah 41:8; 2 Chron 20:7; cf James 2:23) was called a "friend of God."
Romans 1:18
12 The wrath 13 of God 14 is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
14 [18] The wrath of God: God's reaction to human sinfulness, an Old Testament phrase that expresses the irreconcilable opposition between God and evil (see Isaiah 9:11, 16, 18, 20; 10:4; 30:27). It is not contrary to God's universal love for his creatures, but condemns Israel's turning aside from the covenant obligations. Hosea depicts Yahweh as suffering intensely at the thought of having to punish Israel (Hosea 11:8-9). God's wrath was to be poured forth especially on the "Day of Yahweh" and thus took on an eschatological connotation (see Zephaniah 1:15).
Starting from Revelation 10:1 and along side the footnote, it appears to recognize more than the other 2 references, that this God of the Old Testament is continuing to talk to us in the NT! -- the same God.
REvelation 10:1
1 2 Then I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven wrapped in a cloud, with a halo around his head; his face was like the sun and his feet were like pillars of fire.
2 [1] The seven thunders: God's voice announcing judgment and doom; cf Psalm 29:3-9, where thunder, as the voice of Yahweh, is praised seven times.
Why does the Catholic Bible not stop talking about Yahweh when it's the NT! Isn't it Jesus' part of the Bible?
To quote Gerard Gertoux's book in the Book of the resurrection of Bartholemew, they apply the divine name to Jesus (this book is dated between the 5th and 6th century.) I know it's Jesus, but why did they use a "Hebrew Scripture" concept in the "Greek Scriptures?" And why does Severi of Antioch (465 - 538 AD) comment on John 8:58 and say IOA was God's name in Hebrew? In Greek, they don't have "H", that's why it only contained 3 letters.
Unfortunately Josephus didn't tell us the divine name, but gave us a clue with "the four vowels," YHWH. In his works "Wars of the Jews" (V.5.vii), states that on a golden crown of the priests was engraved the sacred name [of God], consisting of four vowels. When we look to English, W and Y are semi-vowels. The V in the Tetragrammaton is the transliteration of W.
Also, in the first few centuries the term "hallelujah" is used like in Revelation, in these Apocryphal books: The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate), Pslams 151...
Also, Jesus, Joel and John are found in the NT. They all have meanings relating to the divine name. Jesus means "Jehovah is salvation," John (Yochanan in Hebrew) means "Jehovah has been gracious" and get this: Joel means "Jehovah is God!" Joel's name says it all!
And why do you think Jesus when being arrested by Pontius Pilate used substitutes for the divine name? Because the Pharisees considered speaking the divine name a capital offense! He uses the terms "Power, "Above" and "God!" In Matthew 26:64, John 19:11 and Mark 15:34 respectively!
And also, why did Steven get stoned to death? Because he used the divine name! That was the real reason!
Also, as I said to you in a private message to you Jaffacake, The Jewish Christians would have remembered what God had done for them in the Hebrew Scriptures, the wars he fought for them, the wisdom he gave Solomon, saving them from the Egyptians, the dividing of the red sea... and now he gives us this guy called Jesus Christ he performed miracles as well! And when Mark quotes Psalms 110:1 By the holy spirit David himself said, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet.”’ This is proof of the divine name in the Greek Scriptures! But other Bible versions put this confusing "the Lord said to my Lord..." situation...
Exodus 3:14 At this God said to Moses: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.’” 15 Then God said once more to Moses:
“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.
His name was suppose to be remembered "forever!" That term is used in other Bible translations! So why do people not translate it in the Greek Scriptures! -
inquirer
@Jaffacake
Do you really seek truth, or something to support the beliefs you already have?
I try and base everything on the Bible -- what do you base things on?
The actual fact REALLY IS is that divine name was only stopped from being used from the Septuagint from about 150 AD! No substitutes before hand!
I find it insulting that you think I am somehow using spurious sources and this is unreliable! Thanks for insulting me. YOU ARE PRETTY MUCH CALLING ME A LIAR!!!! If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to discuss things on this thread anymore!
GOOD DAY TO YOU! :(