Inq - I could give you examples of writings that use "Halleuljah" or "IAO" LONG BEFORE 1385 CE!
My research is about the Tetragrammaton, and where the name Jehovah has been included. I should have been more specific.
George Howard believes that these "J references" (as what the Watchtower calls them) is a recession of the original Hebrew goespel of Matthew! He has written a book about it that is out of print from amazon, but you can get it here: http://www.centuryone.com/4470-0.html I haven't read the book from him, but I have read many quotes from him. He does admit there is no way of proving it, but it does sound feisable.
I have seen the George Howard study. As I said GH puts forward a theory, nothing more. Like you I once thought it was feasible until I researched more. The textual basis of the GH study was the use of God's name in pre-Christian times and only examines Hebrew manuscripts. He does not even deal with all the 237 Jehovah refernces in the NWT. His theory focuses solely on those 112 direct and indirect Hebrew scripture quotations. I agree that the Shem Tob version might actually be a recension, and therefore extremely important, as this could make it a descendant of the Apostle himself.
So, maybe they had a good reason for it with these Hebrew manuscripts from 1385 -- There Hebrews! They know more about the divine name than anyone!
The 1385 source was published by Jewish physician Shem Tob. This work J2 was written for the sole purpose of attacking and disproving Christianity. GH describes the work...deals with various passages of the Bible that were disputed by Jews and Christians...contains the entire gospel of Matthew along with polemic (critical) comments of Shem Tob interspersed throughout the text. Is this the preferred Watchtower source of inspiration above the 5,000 ancient manuscripts of 1000 years earlier?
Lets assume the Shem Tob version is a recension. The fact is this does NOT use the Tetragrammaton! It uses the term hash-Shem, or indeed an abbreviation of hash-Shem ie an abbreviation of a phrase meaning 'The Name'. There is no textual evidence whatsoever that Matthew used the Tetragrammaton of Divine Name.
Answer me this: Why is the name "Yahweh" referred to so much in the Catholic New American Bible so much in the 'New Testament?" I thought it was Jesus in the NT -- that is the most popular/usual understanding!
I only trust Bible's that are based on the ancient manuscripts. I am bidding on ebay for a Kingdom Interlinear NWT. I trust the Westcott & Hort Greek Interlinear. I also trust the New Jesrusalem Bible which restores the Divine Name where it rightly belongs - in the OT. Perhaps that is why JWs like to use the New Jerusalem Bible, they know deep down it is more accurate than the NWT. I haven't seen the Bibles you mention. I go back to my point about whether they are based on the ancient Greek manuscripts? I'm not arguing that everywhere the NT says Lord, that refers to Jesus. I have never said that, so I don't understand why you need to make that point.
Examples: John 15:15
6 Slaves . . . friends: in the Old Testament, Moses (Deut 34:5), Joshua (Joshua 24:29), and David (Psalm 89:21) were called "servants" or "slaves of Yahweh"; only Abraham (Isaiah 41:8; 2 Chron 20:7; cf James 2:23) was called a "friend of God."
Not seen this version - is it accurate? Which ancient manuscripts support the Jahweh reference? Why does the NWT insert Jehovah in more than twice as many verses, most of which are neither direct or indirest references to the OT?
Romans 1:18
12 The wrath 13 of God 14 is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
Not sure why you quote this, it does not contain the Divine Name. Yet again, do you think I am denying that such references are to God, whose personal name is Jahweh or Jehovah? I agree with you wholeheartedly"!
14 [18] The wrath of God: God's reaction to human sinfulness, an Old Testament phrase that expresses the irreconcilable opposition between God and evil (see Isaiah 9:11, 16, 18, 20; 10:4; 30:27). It is not contrary to God's universal love for his creatures, but condemns Israel's turning aside from the covenant obligations. Hosea depicts Yahweh as suffering intensely at the thought of having to punish Israel (Hosea 11:8-9). God's wrath was to be poured forth especially on the "Day of Yahweh" and thus took on an eschatological connotation (see Zephaniah 1:15).
Again, we have no argument here.
Starting from Revelation 10:1 and along side the footnote, it appears to recognize more than the other 2 references, that this God of the Old Testament is continuing to talk to us in the NT! -- the same God.
Of course many of the references to Lord in the NT are referring to the God of the OT. There is only one God! I don't understand your point.
Why does the Catholic Bible not stop talking about Yahweh when it's the NT! Isn't it Jesus' part of the Bible?
Are you seriously suggesting that I, or Catholics divide the Bible into teo parts, OT for Jehovah and NT for Jesus. That is what the JWs teach you that non JWs, especially trinitarians believe. It is not! Why should I defend a modern catholic Bible translation. Is that the source you rely on? It is certainly not my idea of the most accurate inspired scripture available to us. I am sorry but I cannot accept catholic or any other trinitarian versions as the most accurate versions of the accurate inspired scriptures. Both you and the Watchtower rely heavily on modern trinitarian versions. I rely on 5000 ancient manscripts, as did westcott & Hort, some from as early as 20 - 30 years after the death of the last NT author.
To quote Gerard Gertoux's book in the Book of the resurrection of Bartholemew, they apply the divine name to Jesus (this book is dated between the 5th and 6th century.) I know it's Jesus, but why did they use a "Hebrew Scripture" concept in the "Greek Scriptures?" And why does Severi of Antioch (465 - 538 AD) comment on John 8:58 and say IOA was God's name in Hebrew? In Greek, they don't have "H", that's why it only contained 3 letters.
Haven't read the book yet.
Unfortunately Josephus didn't tell us the divine name, but gave us a clue with "the four vowels," YHWH. In his works "Wars of the Jews" (V.5.vii), states that on a golden crown of the priests was engraved the sacred name [of God], consisting of four vowels. When we look to English, W and Y are semi-vowels. The V in the Tetragrammaton is the transliteration of W.
I will only read a Bible where the Divine Name in some form has been restored. It is interesting to me that God did not allow us to know precisely how his name should be pronounced. We can never know for sure now. That lvel of detail does not seem to matter to him.
Also, in the first few centuries the term "hallelujah" is used like in Revelation, in these Apocryphal books: The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate), Pslams 151...
I agree, an abbreviated Divine Name, but no Tetragrammaton, and certainly nothing to translate as Jehovah.
Also, Jesus, Joel and John are found in the NT. They all have meanings relating to the divine name. Jesus means "Jehovah is salvation," John (Yochanan in Hebrew) means "Jehovah has been gracious" and get this: Joel means "Jehovah is God!" Joel's name says it all!
Of course Jahweh (or Jehovah) is God. I have never met a Christian who believes otherwise - again I must ask what point you make. Again you appear to believe the JW straw man argument. You keep on knocking down arguments that no one is making.
And why do you think Jesus when being arrested by Pontius Pilate used substitutes for the divine name? Because the Pharisees considered speaking the divine name a capital offense! He uses the terms "Power, "Above" and "God!" In Matthew 26:64, John 19:11 and Mark 15:34 respectively!
Why is the Divine Name not recorded in any ancient NT manuscript? I don't dispute he called out to his Father, but he did not say his name!
And also, why did Steven get stoned to death? Because he used the divine name! That was the real reason!
I'll have to look that up when I get back. But the Divine Name does not exist in the Christian Greek sriptures, not if we believe we have accurate ancient manuscripts. I can name my 500 sources for you to check. Do you prefer to trust anti-christian versions (Shem Tob) or trinitarians?
Also, as I said to you in a private message to you Jaffacake, The Jewish Christians would have remembered what God had done for them in the Hebrew Scriptures, the wars he fought for them, the wisdom he gave Solomon, saving them from the Egyptians, the dividing of the red sea... and now he gives us this guy called Jesus Christ he performed miracles as well! And when Mark quotes Psalms 110:1 By the holy spirit David himself said, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet.
I agree with all of this...until this section below....
”’ This is proof of the divine name in the Greek Scriptures! But other Bible versions put this confusing "the Lord said to my Lord..." situation...
Where is the Tetragrammaton in the Greek scriptures?
Exodus 3:14 At this God said to Moses: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.’” 15 Then God said once more to Moses:
“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.
I agree with all the above.
His name was suppose to be remembered "forever!" That term is used in other Bible translations! So why do people not translate it in the Greek Scriptures!For one reason. There is no scriptural textual evidence that it was ever there. I don't believe God is concerned with the spelling or proninciation of his name, if he was why has he allowed its pronunciation to be forgotton forever? I believe this refers to the proper scriptural meaning of someone's name - the argument about good name or reputation, that you readily dismiss.