Deny this! Brooklyn! I dare you

by stevenyc 104 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Alwayshere
    Alwayshere
    I'd like to ask the child-raping cult about this scripture: Deaut.22: 25-27

    Mcsemike, My son wrote the Watchtower Society and ask them about that scripture because we had 2 child molesters in the congragation we attended and both admitted they were guilty. One was sent to prison but left in good standing with the congragation and the other is going to meetings and commenting like nothing happened. The Society wrote the congragation were my son went and told them to send 2 elders to talk with him. So when my son showed the elders the scripture in Deaut. they said "there had to be two witnesses." My son said "But it says "No One heard her scream." The elders said the same thing"there had to be 2 witnesses." My son disagreed with them and also disagreed on another doctrine so they disfellowshipped him and labled him an Apostate.His wife also was DF. We have been out now for about 4 years and we are happy to be out of the cult. Have other kids in it but keep hoping they will wake up.

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Danny,

    They also use Matt 18, as I've mentioned in http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/97073/1.ashx

    This is a really good scripture, because it's from Jesus, not Paul. It is also the scripture quoted in Viccy Boers case

    steve

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc


    Ever get the feeling that when you drop a bomb, everything goes quiet? steve

  • outoftheorg
    outoftheorg

    An E mail has been sent to LOVE NORRIS attorneys suggesting that they view this thread and the information gained from the wbts internet site.

    I think this may be of interest to them.

    Outoftheorg

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    I could have gave this article it's own thread,i think it's best here. Abuse and accountability Click for image
    Seattle Times - United States
    ... for an opportunity to molest, is a Christian church where the ... whose ecclesiastical policies inadvertently permit supposedly repentant pedophiles to repeat ...

    The trust of a child is a very delicate matter, creating a tremendous burden of responsibility for the adult caregiver. This burden is also an explicit duty, both moral and legal, to assure that the child's trust is not misplaced by allowing a sexual predator to covertly abuse that boy or girl.

    Of all the places you would not expect to find such people lurking, waiting for an opportunity to molest, is a Christian church where the words of Jesus are commonly enshrined, "Suffer the little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven."

    But there are presently some religious denominations whose ecclesiastical policies inadvertently permit supposedly repentant pedophiles to repeat their dirty work under a shield of the priest-counseling privilege. Why these churches routinely protect their identity is incomprehensible.

    These allegedly penitent sex offenders satisfy their cravings until their young victims finally cry abuse to their parents. In most cases, these confused pre-adolescents seriously believe they are the ones to blame and continue into adulthood laboring under a severe burden of guilt.

    This is usually the first time that the shocked parents are made aware that a sex offender has been in their midst, that the culprit has been sitting in their congregation every Sunday acting as a humble and respected parishioner.

    Even more egregious and startling is when the one officiating in the most sacred rites is the deceitful predator. Then, the church's ecclesiastical leaders are pointedly asked by the parents whether they knew that the perpetrator was a sex offender.

    With defensive tones, the bishops, archbishops and chief ministers cajole the victims — both the children and the parents — into believing that the offender, who typically was placed by the governing clergy in a respected position allowing him access to the children, repented of his sins and went through a period of penance that absolved him of all wrongdoing.

    The victims are encouraged to undergo church-sponsored counseling and to forgive the sinner and try to forget, especially about any thoughts of holding the church legally accountable for damages inflicted on the children.

    The most recent incident of sexual molestation emanating from inside a religious denomination occurred in Mountlake Terrace, where there is presently the highest density of Level II and Level III sex offenders within the entire state of Washington.

    David Henry Herget, a Mormon high priest and convicted Level I sex offender — a person whom I knew — was arrested July 1 on suspicion of 18 charges, including child rape and sexual exploitation of a child. He died early the next day while on suicide watch at Snohomish County Jail. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a very questionable policy of shielding its lay clergy who previously have committed sexual child molestation but supposedly have repented of their crimes. It is a policy that should be promptly amended.

    Herget was excommunicated from the Mormon Church in 1993 after a conviction for child rape, but subsequently was re-ordained to his priesthood office in 2004. During the interim, Herget's status as a convicted sex offender was mostly unknown to the rank-and-file Mormon congregation in Mountlake Terrace, which allowed him the opportunity to mingle with, and gain the confidence of, the local Mormon children.

    For most of a decade, the Catholic Church has been unsuccessful in using the priest-counseling privilege as a valid defense in the numerous lawsuits alleging abuse by the Catholic clergy. This futile attempt at ecclesiastical privilege, in order to protect the church from liability, has also been tried by attorneys representing the LDS Church in more than 30 sexual-abuse lawsuits across the country.

    Perhaps it is high time that the Mormons, and all other churches that routinely protect the identity of sex offenders, take a long hard look at their disclosure policies and whom they regularly ordain as priests.

    Norton R. Nowlin is a paralegal and freelance writer residing in Mountlake Terrace. He has been an elder in the Mormon Church since 1972. E-mail him at [email protected]

    [email protected] Letter to editor addy

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    I just sent this email to Mr. Nowlin and the Letters to the Editor email of The Seattle Times (and would encourage others to do so as well!) : Dear Mr. Nowlin, Thank you for your article on "Abuse and Accountability" in today's version of The Seattle Times online. My name is Randall Watters and I am a former Jehovah's Witness that runs a non-profit organization, Free Minds, Inc., who's goal is to help foster positive change in the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I formerly worked at their headquarters in Brooklyn, NY for six years and was an elder and speaking representative for them. I left in 1980 and disassociated myself due to the abuses of the leadership, known as their "Governing Body" towards other members of the headquarters. They held then, and still do, an iron hand on 6 million Witnesses around the world, holding the threat of disfellowshipping over them for daring to even question the policies of the leadership. In recent years it has become known that the Watchtower has quite a few skeltons in the closet regarding the cover-up of pedophiles and sexual abuse, sometimes in powerful positions in the church, as well as failing to change its policies towards those who molest. They have a "two-witness" rule that pretty much makes it impossible to catch a pedophile and take action against him in the church (see a current discussion of this at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/96846/1.ashx). I network with others such as Bill Bowen (www.silentlambs.org) and the Love and Norris attorneys (http://www.lovenorrisattorneys.com/jehova.html) in trying to bring the leaders to accountability for this matter. In the meantime, there are no doubt quite a number of pedophiles shielded by the church as wee speak that the Watchtower has no intention of exposing. While your article dealt with churches in general, your focus was also on the LDS church. I think in future articles it would be good to mention this struggle in the midst of the Jehovah's Witnesses as well. Just taking a look at my "abuse/molestation" guest book archives (http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/index.htm) will give you some idea of just how much of a problem it is. Thank you for bringing this matter to light. With your journalistic abilities, I hope you can bring more exposure to this phenomena to the public in the future. Sincerely yours, Randall Watters Net Soup!
    www.freeminds.org
    www.exjws.net
    www.watchtowernews.org
    www.randyTV.com

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Oh, but there's more!
    When reading this, please remember that when a pedo is know to the elders, it is not shared with the congregation.
    This is from their press site: http://www.jw-media.org/region/global/english/backgrounders/e_molestation.htm

    Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection

    Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one abused child is one too many. For decades The Watchtower and Awake! have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and the need to protect children from child abuse. Among others, there was the article "Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!" published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower ; "Help for the Victims of Incest" in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower, "Your Child Is in Danger!", "How Can We Protect Our Children?", and "Prevention in the Home", all in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as "Child Molesting—Every Mother's Nightmare," in the January 22, 1985, Awake!

    When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.

    However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply. Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.

    If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse, the elders take appropriate congregational action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentant—is cut to the heart and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future—what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah's Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service." He would not qualify Scripturally. (1 Timothy 3:2, 7-10) We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually.—2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4.

    In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago a 16-year-old boy had sexual relations with a consenting 15-year-old girl. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdiction where he lived when this happened, elders may have been required to report this as an incident of child abuse. Let us say that 20 years have passed. The child abuse reporting law may have changed; the man may have even married the girl! Both have been living exemplary lives and they are respected. In such a rare case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation.

    Our procedures have been refined over time. Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We are continuing to refine them. We do not believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse. Anyone in a responsible position who is guilty of child abuse would be removed from his responsibilities without hesitation. We certainly would not knowingly allow him to serve elsewhere, either because he moved or through a transfer.

    The Bible teaches that individuals can repent of their sins and "turn to God by doing works that befit repentance," and we accept what the Bible says. (Acts 26:20) Still, the safety of our children is of the utmost importance. We take it very seriously.

    "Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!" published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower ;

    What
    of a Child Molester?

    What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that ‘blasphemy against the holy spirit’ was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth. (Luke 12:10; Hebrews 10:26, 27) But nowhere does the Bible say that an adult Christian who sexually abuses a child—whether incestuously or otherwise—cannot be forgiven. Indeed, his sins can be washed clean if he repents sincerely from the heart and turns his conduct around. However, he may still have to struggle with the wrong fleshly impulses he cultivated. (Ephesians 1:7) And there may be consequences that he cannot avoid

    Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State. The congregation will not protect him from this. Moreover, the man has revealed a serious weakness that henceforth will have to be taken into account. If he seems to be repentant, he will be encouraged to make spiritual progress, share in the field service, even have parts in the Theocratic Ministry School and nonteaching parts in the Service Meeting. This does not mean, though, that he will qualify to serve in a position of responsibility in the congregation. What are the Scriptural reasons for this?

    F or one thing, an elder must be "self-controlled." (Titus 1:8) True, none of us have perfect self-control. (Romans 7:21-25) But a dedicated adult Christian who falls into the sin of child sexual abuse reveals an unnatural fleshly weakness. Experience has shown that such an adult may well molest other children. True, not every child molester repeats the sin, but many do. And the congregation cannot read hearts to tell who is and who is not liable to molest children again. (Jeremiah 17:9) Hence, Paul’s counsel to Timothy applies with special force in the case of baptized adults who have molested children: "Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others." (1 Timothy 5:22) For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer or serve in any other special, full-time service.—Compare the principle at Exodus 21:28, 29.




    steve

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    In the watchtower I quoted above, which is mentioned on the press site, remember it says the following:

    What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that ‘blasphemy against the holy spirit’ was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth. (Luke 12:10; Hebrews 10:26, 27) But nowhere does the Bible say that an adult Christian who sexually abuses a child—whether incestuously or otherwise—cannot be forgiven. Indeed, his sins can be washed clean if he repents sincerely from the heart and turns his conduct around. However, he may still have to struggle with the wrong fleshly impulses he cultivated. (Ephesians 1:7) And there may be consequences that he cannot avoid

    So, a molester can be forgiven, allowed to preach, and teach from the platform. However, only someone who 'sins against the spirit' is doomed with no chance of salvation. So, what do the Brooklyn Boy's concider as a 'sin against the spirit'?:

    Awake! 2003 - Feb-08: Is there an unforgivable sin?

    Warning to True Christians Why do true Christians take the warning of the unforgivable sin to heart? Because although we have accurate knowledge of God and of the activity of his spirit, a wicked heart could develop. (Hebrews 3:12) We should be careful not to think that this could never happen to us. Consider Judas Iscariot. He was once a faithful follower of Jesus. He was chosen as one of the 12 apostles, so he must have had good qualities. But at some point he began to let wicked thoughts and desires grow, and they eventually overtook him. During the period of time he was an eyewitness of Jesus’ incredible miracles, he was stealing money. Then, for money, he knowingly betrayed the Son of God.Some people who were once faithful Christians have purposely drawn away from God, perhaps because of bitterness, pride, or greed, and are now apostate fighters against God’s spirit. They willfully oppose what the spirit is clearly accomplishing. Have these individuals committed the unforgivable sin? Jehovah is the final Judge.—Romans 14:12.Rather than judging others, we do well personally to guard against committing secret sins that can gradually harden our hearts. (Ephesians 4:30) And we take comfort in the fact that Jehovah will forgive us in a large way, even of serious sins that we have committed, if we are repentant.—Isaiah 1:18, 19.


    So, there it is : APOSTACY is the unforgivable sin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    GO FIGURE!!

    steve

  • Gill
    Gill

    Interesting how it's forgiveable to abuse, rape, murder, steal, maim etc, BUT say anything against God's mouthpiece, the WTBTS and you're stuffed!

    Reminds me of a case in Rugby about eighteen months ago where a JW was found guilty of raping to boys and appropriately sentenced by the court. But, the JWs turned up at the court holding their NWT and he was holding his NWT of the Bible and they all refused to believe that he was guilty. Apparantly it was all 'persecution from Satan and the Apostates' and 'Our brothers are being falsely accused all over the world now the end is so near!'

    Makes you want to puke.

    The real problem is, that as long as the rank and file believe that, their children go unprotected from the predators amongst them. And as long as the WTBTS comes out with such forgiving attitues towards pedophiles the dumb the sheep remain.

  • sf
    sf

    Thought I'd bring up some 'back threads' on this topic that newer ones and lurkers would find beneficial:

    21-Jun-03

    Judge: Elders NOT required to report abuse

    27-Jun-03

    LANDMARK DECISION - Vicki Boer vs Watchtower Society

    04-Jun-02

    "Still A Pedophile Paradise" by Norm H.

    28-Jun-02

    Where is the proof Jehovahs people abuse children?

    01-Aug-02

    Pedophilia and the WTS 's Irrational Arrogance

    26-Aug-02

    Watchtower's RAPE Policy

    **Warning** This particular thread below, may be controversial and insulting to some, yet keep in mind it is extremely informative in nature in regards to the TWO WITNESS POLICY AS IS LAYED OUT IN THE "ORGANIZED TO ACCOMPLISH OUR MINISTRY" BOOK; as you will see once you get to the meat of its contents. Also keep in mind, I did not bring it back up to discuss Ray Franz vs. Bill Bowen...ONLY to make the two witness discussion current again. Even its title is a bit controversial, so I will just post the link:

    28-Oct-02

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/39486/1.ashx

    ___

    I've actually pulled this book out of my drawer yet my scanner is not the type where I can scan the actual pages of the book. I'd have to literally tear the pages out in order to achieve this. My comments in above thread basically highlight what I finally understood Chapter 12 to be saying, and thusly.

    If anyone DOES have the ability to scan pages 142-147, please do so or I may decide to just TYPE IT ALL OUT and submit it here.

    sKally

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