Deny this! Brooklyn! I dare you

by stevenyc 104 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • stevenyc


    Thanks for those, it'll help no end with my research.

    Is this what you're looking for?:


    Willingness to overlook offenses and to give does not mean that we are notconcerned about wrongdoing or that we approve of it. Not all wrongs cansimply be charged to inherited imperfection; nor is it for our brother's good orfor the good of the congregation to overlook it if he commits wrongs that gobeyond minor offenses. (Lev. 19:17; Ps. 141:5) Under the Law covenantgiven through Moses there was recognition of a difference in degree ofseriousness of sins and transgressions. This is also true of Christians underthe new covenant. –Compare 1 John 5:16, 17.

    When giving counsel, Jesus outlined some specific procedures for resolvingproblems of serious wrongdoing, such as fraud or slander, that arise betweenfellow Christians. Note the steps that he set out: "Moreover, if your brothercommits a sin, [1] go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listensto you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, [2] take alongwith you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witneses,every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, [3] speak to thecongregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, him be to you justas a man of the nations as a tax collector."- Matt. 18:15-17.

    If someone in the congregation has commited such a serious sin against youpersonally, do be hasty to turn to the overseers, or someone else, requestingthem to intervene in your behalf. First of all, as Jesus counsels, speak with theone against whom you have a complaint. Try to resolve the matter between justthe two of you without involving anyone else at all. If the matter can bestraightened out in this way, the one who has sinned will certainly appreciatethe fact that you have not told others about his sin and have not marred hisgood reputation among others in the congregation. You will have "gained yourbrother.

    "Where the sinner accepts reproof, seeks forgiveness and straightens thematter out, Jesus states there is no need to carry the matter further. This factshows that, although serious, the offenses here discussed were limited innature to such as could be settled between the individuals involved. This wouldnot include such offenses as fornication, adultery, homosexuality, blasphemy,apostasy, idolatry and similar gross sins that should be reported to the eldersand handled by them. When the Law covenant was in force, these sins requiredmore than forgiveness from an offended individual.-I Cor. 6:9, 10; Gal. 5:19-21.

    In view of this and in view of the illustration that Jesus subsequently gave,as recorded at Matthew 18:23-35, the sins considered in Matthew 18:15-17evidently were sins such as those involving financial or property matters-failureto make proper payment for something or some action involving a measure offraud. The sin might damage one's reputation by actual slander. In thesecases, if the offender recognized his wrong, expressed willingness to right it tothe extent possible and sought forgiveness, the matter could be settled by theoffended one's granting forgiveness. -Compare Matthew 5:25, 26.

    If the one who sinned against you cannot be convinced by your reasoningwith him alone then do as Jesus said and take one or two others along andspeak with him again. The one or two you take with you should have the sameobjective, that of gaining your brother. Preferably they should be witnesses ofthe alleged wrongdoing, but if there are no eyewitnesses, you should choose totake along responsible brothers who become witnesses to the evidencepresented the discussion. Also, after listening to what you and the other personhave to say, they may help the two of you reason on the matter and seek asolution to the problem. Keep in mind, however, that if you alone were not ableto convince your brother that a wrong was committed, there is always thepossibility that he has not sinned against you and that the individuals you takealong with you may be required to convince you that you have no reason forcomplaint against your brother. (Prov. 18:17) Remember that the objective is toestablish peace between you and your brother, to 'gain your brother.

    'But if you are convinced that your brother has sinned against you and it hasnot been resolved either when you spoke with him alone or when you went tohim with one or two others, and if a serious sin is involved so that it would bewrong just to let it pass, then you should report the matter to the overseers ofthe congregation. Having done this, you have taken it as far as you can. Leavethe problem in the hands of the responsible members of the congregation andtrust in Jehovah that it will be resolved. Never should you allow the wrongconduct of someone else to become a reason for stumbling or a force to to robyou of your joy in Jehovah's service.-Ps. 119:165.

    If upon investigation it should become evident to the shepherds of the flockthat the brother has indeed committed a serious sin against you and yet hasbeen unwilling to repent and make appropriate amends, it may becomenecessary for the overseers to expel the unrepentant wrongdoer and in thatway protect the flock and safeguard the cleanness of the congregation. -Matt.18:17.

  • sf

    Yes. Thank you.

    Would you be able to scan page 145-148 [ Handling Other Judicial Matters--If The Decision Is To Disfellowship--Announcement Of Disfellowshipping--Unbaptized Publishers Who Are Wrongdoers] and as well?

    Much oblige.


  • katiekitten

    SF, there are some seriously interesting back threads youve provided links for.

    Thank you for putting the work in to bringing them together. I think ive got some studying to do.

  • talesin

    I've just read this thread for the first time. Most of the stuff was old news to me, BUT this business of the person confronting their abuser!!!

    The FIRST thing a therapist or crisis intervenor will tell someone with recovered memories is this "Don't rush to confront your abuser".

    This is extremely damaging to the survivor, AND THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO SILENCE THEM FOREVER.

    KLS, don't go! We need you!


  • Sassy

    this is the first I have read this thread too.. and I ditto talesin..

    KLS, don't go.. we love you..

    for the record... I was abused as a child.. so it isn't that I do not take this subject seriously.. however.. I also do not appreciate friends being attacked..

  • stillconcerned

    Thanks for the material everyone sent...

    Most of it we have had already, but every bit helps.

    Kimberlee D. Norris

    attorney at law

    [email protected]

  • Darth Yhwh
    Darth Yhwh

    I haven’t really spent a lot of time thinking about this issue until recently. Although I have never experienced any form of abuse my best friend revealed to me shortly before moving out of state that he had been sexually abused by a relative (who I think was a JW, however, I’m not positive about that).

    I also worked as an office manager of a psychiatric counseling office for about five years. One of the more successful counselors there had a client who was a JW and confessed to her that he had been molesting children for years. I’m not sure of all the details with his case but I do know that he turned himself in to the authorities and is serving prison time as a result.

    I guess that I’m just now realizing what a prevalent issue this is with this organization. For me it’s just a re-affirmation of what I already knew that the WBTS is guilty of not only bloodshed but also harboring pedophiles.

  • mcsemike

    The solution is simple. Contact the media and tell all your friends to do the same. My daughter was abused from the age of nine until she was 13 years old. My idiotic wife left me because I quit this cult. I realize now that it's time for some people to die. I'll just bide my time. Perhaps Bethel will suffer a tragedy like 9-11. Wouldn't that be just too bad??

  • mcsemike

    To Alwayshere: The WT is run by lunatics and rapists. They DO NOT have god's approval or guidance. That's why they didn't admit to that verse in Deut. If they ever DF me for speaking out, and my daugther shuns me for the rest of my life because of it, I'm going to hunt them down and we'll see how well the resurrection works.

  • atypical

    I'm heartsick. the worst part is that the witnesses are taught that the elders know best, even in these situations. I can't imagine the victim having to confront the molester. What garbage. They have put themselves in a position of terrible responsibility and they have failed.

    Burn Motherf*cker, burn.

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