The Ten Commandments! (page 29)

hibiscusfire

Crumpet:

How do you know Jesus didn't commit any crimes?

Because it is a fact. Even with other religions.

Jesus' Own Claim to be the Son of God Brings Muslim to Christ

Mohammed said Jesus is a prophet. Muslims know that prophets do not tell lies. And it never says in the Qur'an that Jesus ever lied. If Jesus told the truth, then we must listen to what He says. So what did He say?

Jesus said that He is the Son of God . Jesus also told us exactly how to come to God:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

hibiscusfire

Spook:

What is the specific measurable criteria by which we will evaluate the bible?

Well firt of all most existing manuscripts of the Bible are divided into two "families". These families are generally represented by the cities of Alexandria, Egypt and Antioch, Syria.

There are only two Bibles, God's and the devil's. There are only two views of the Bible. It is totally perfect or it is imperfect.

The two Bibles, in manuscript form, and their corresponding ideologies originate in two vastly different locations in the Mid East. Alexandria, Egypt and Antioch, Syria.

Discerning which location gives us the perfect Bible and the correct ideology and which gave us the devil's bible and incorrect ideology is one of the easiest tasks imaginable. This pursuit is made childishly easy due to one source, the Bible.

We accept the Bible as our final authority in all matters of faith and practice. Therefore, all anyone need do is to explore the Bible and discover what GOD thinks of Alexandria, Egypt and what He thinks of Antioch, Syria.

doogie

Why didn't Noah's Ark make headlines? The evidence was there. It was beyond the realm of simple coincidence that every detail was consistent with the object containing the remains of a ship which could only be Noah's Ark. But the world wasn't about to accept it.
The traditional ark hunters continued to search on Mount. Ararat even though Turkish scientists and archaeologists had determined that it was a ship in the mountains of Ararat - a very ancient ship - and that it could be nothing else except the ark of Noah.

hib, we've covered this in your "Life...blah, blah" thread already. remember?...

- the bible says noah's ark was rectangular. your "ark" is not.

- the bible's measurements for the length of the ark are kind of close to the measurements of your "ark". 'close' but not correct.

- there are similar formations all over the stupid mountain. there was one picture posted in the other thread that clearly showed at least 3 other formations which looked exactly like your "ark". did god forget to tell us that there was actually a fleet of arks? or are these simply natural geological formations?

i've been staying away from your intellectually dishonest comments lately because i value my time a bit too much to argue with the intentionally deceitful. sorry, but it's true. your claims about the ark have been thoroughly refuted yet you continue to use them to support your argument. all this serves to prove is your own density. stop lying. it is unbecoming to your faith.

hibiscusfire

doogie:

- the bible says noah's ark was rectangular. your "ark" is not.

My ark?

Spook

Hib,

That's 2. You only have 1 chance left. Now, if you don't understand the question, please tell me.

What are the specific, measureable standards by which we will engage and answer the questions surrounding the claims of the authority of the bible?

If you don't understand the question, that's fine. We can rephrase it. If you refuse to participate in that discussion, then I say again that you are a fool, a bigot, and a danger to children, families, and freedom. You responded to my question with more assertions of why your views are the perfect ones and why everything else is from the devil and can be dismissed. Last chance, kiddo. Last chance.

hibiscusfire

Spook:

Now, if you don't understand the question, please tell me.

Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to get at. I thought I was answering it for you.

Hib

doogie

My ark?

yeah, the mud divot that you think is a 4000 year old boat imprint.

Spook

Much better. Thank you.

A claim is an assertion of what is so. It may regard actual information, but usually deals with a particular meaning that is attributed to information. A claim can not be founded on another claim. If you want to prove something, the way that is done is by stating your position and then providing evidence to back that up. That evidence can not be more claims. You'll know when you have real evidence because evidence never has any meaning attached to it. If your statement still has meaning in it, then you are making a claim.

Example...

Evidence: There is a rock on the table. (Given we understand the common meaning of the words.)

Claim: It is obvious to good parents that Billy, a very naughty boy, willfully put a dirty rock on the clean table.

You see, there is a great distance between #1 and #2. There is much to be discussed and investigated to get at the truth of the matter.

Also, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you claim that you had toast for breakfast, I won't challenge you. If you claim you had dragon's eggs for breakfast, I will.

So, If I claim that I don't have to shave because a six-foot purple rabit nibbles my face clean while I sleep, you would rightly say that I should prove it. My proof of that could not be a story about a purple rabit who nibbles hair, it could not be an annecdote from some other people who make the same claim.

You claim that the bible is the perfect word of an all powerful god. I don't believe you. I don't believe it's good, perfect, or written by any god at all. I know you believe that very deeply, at the core of your being perhaps. But I assert that this claim is not true. Moreover, I assert that the universe is natural, and there is nothing going on that requires any sort of supernatural explanation. And if you want me to take you seriously we can agree first on what will be our standard of investigation. How will we look at the available information? If we come up against information that you and I are not skilled in, how will we agree on expert opinions and authority?

Now, are you willing to take that challenge on or not? If so, then make a brief, enumerated list of what standards you suggest.

hibiscusfire

Spook:

You claim that the bible is the perfect word of an all powerful god. I don't believe you. I don't believe it's good, perfect, or written by any god at all. I know you believe that very deeply, at the core of your being perhaps. But I assert that this claim is not true. Moreover, I assert that the universe is natural, and there is nothing going on that requires any sort of supernatural explanation. And if you want me to take you seriously we can agree first on what will be our standard of investigation. How will we look at the available information? If we come up against information that you and I are not skilled in, how will we agree on expert opinions and authority?

Now, are you willing to take that challenge on or not? If so, then make a brief, enumerated list of what standards you suggest.

Yes. The only thing is would you keep your posts shorter. As I said before it's not often I get to come on to the computer.

So how am i supposed to do this? Give you a history of the bible and how it came to be? The evidence? Records?

I was posting things I believed relevant to answering your questions you see.

HIB

Daunt

Giving a history of the bible is not evidence for it's absolute spiritual claims. Using Daniels prophecy is not evidence either since it has been refuted many times. The Ark isn't evidence either because it has been shown to be a natural geological formation many times.

Saying I make the assertion that a 17 foot man lives in my backyard. Proof of this, would be a picture of this man, or showing this man to the person making the accusation. Making a claim such as, "He lives in my backyard because the book that he gave me told me that this was his ancient burrial ground" isn't proof at all. Saying, "You have to believe and have faith that he exists and you must put your whole soul in it to believe" isn't proof or evidence. If we used this in scientific research or even in day to day life we would be in a terrible situation.

I would like to know if Hib uses this "belief" system in everyday life. Say somebody says they have found a cure for cancer? They made the claim and a few other people made the claim. By your "belief" system logic we should go straight and believe every single word that the person that made the claim about the cure of cancer as truth. This is why belief is not a good way to go about things. I will talk about my idea of belief in "Nothing" (You'll understand if I explain it to ya) in a little while.

The Ten Commandments!

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