by Crumpet 171 Replies latest jw friends
Of course, you all do know that the ASLEEP "journal" will publish an article of how ONLY the Dubs did squat... and some sister was miraculously "saved" because she chose to go out in service instead of going to work... narrowly escaping death...
So see brothers.... the need to skip work and serve J so as not to get killed by terrorists!......sheeeesh
u/d (of the see's it coming class)
Deleted. Sorry, wrong thread.
It wasn't an attack against leadership or institution it was an attempt to kill people. They don't care what people as long as people died. I can think of few things that would define evil more appropriately.
It was an attack to cripple a city, demolish their economic system, and kill people.
How do we stop this insanity?
Hit them in their wallets and drain them economically. It's a known fact that some of the oil-rich middle eastern countries are supporting terrorist groups. I am a big advocate of low-fuel and fuel alternative cars. Currently, I drive a hybrid. Being less dependent on their biggest money-maker -oil - is one way to strike back without war and without killing anyone.
Robyn
You may be reading the Quran but it is obvious that you do not understand it. Christians and Jews are not unbelievers. They are not considered infidels. All 3 religions worship the same god. They are not idolators. BTW, I've read the Quran too. I even went one step further: I consulted with Muslims to help me understand their interpretation of the scriptures you've quoted. May I suggest you do the same?
I haven't seen the above groups being attacked lately, have you?
Al Queda is no more Muslim than the IRA is Catholic.
Magnificent points and well made.
avashai
Oh NICE!!! So it's just buddhists, shintoists, pagans, hindu's, and all the REST of the world's sundry children that are f*cked. Great. But christians and jews will be spared !! Woo-hoo!!!
Quite, but the point was that MUSLIMS acting in this way towards a form of co-religionist (i.e Christians and Jews) are as divergent from most Muslim's beliefs as Abortion-Clinic-Worker-Killing-Fundamentalist-Christians beliefs differ from most professed Christians - and those feelings would equally apply to the same attacks on 'Infidels' nowadays.
Some dogs bite. Some cats scratch. Are all dogs and cats bad? Religion is besides the point, it's destructive ideologies - which no religion or lack of religion has a monopoly on - and cultures that do not respect equal human rights for all peaceful law-abiding people, no matter their gender, sexuality or beliefs.
If because some dogs bite you get so het-up about how dangerous dogs can be, you miss out identifying why some dogs are dangerous, and dealing with the threat they present, and you make all the nice dogs feel threatened. As some cats can be just as bad as some dogs, to make out that dogness was connected with violence is to ignore one can equally say that catness is related to violence, as some cats are also dangerous.
Thing to concentrate on is I know we are angry at the same people, just saying it different ways. I'm careful about concentrating on the religion because I believe the most pursuasive arguments show religion at the end of the day to be a harmful destraction
We are all against violent criminals, not Muslims.
Mary
I say you pinpoint the bastards that did this and kill 'em.
That's what I mean about being smart. The bastards that did this; maybe I took your bombing comment too literally, as many people have been taking it literally and actually, and god knows 'pinpoint' and 'bombs' are not always synomunous.
dorayakil
i cannot justify the plain words written there in the Holy Qu'ran telling people to kill...
Judging from what else you say I'm sure you'll agree that equivalently violent action following god's commands in the Bible (as seen by those doing it) are equally unjustifiable.
we must stand up against intolerance and terrorism whether if its by an al-qaeda-led jihad or a western-politician-led "crusade".
Yes, yes, and not to put too fine a point on it, yes.
I think we are actually all (well apart from freak but add number of posts to content of posts and even ignoring the big fricking HINT of the handle you still end up with TROLL) in agreement about who the people we need to get are, it's just some are cautious about generalisation that can make innocent parties thus included by generalisation feel they are being criticised unfairly.
And they (those unfairly generalised about) are as against it as we are, so putting potential allies off is probably not the best course of action.
I fear that there might be more casualties to be announced from the bus. It was full. There's over 30 people on the top deck. They've announced two casualties officially. But just look at the pictures. I can't bring myself to state the obvious.
But it looks like London got off lightly; nearly 200 people died in Madrid (there's obviously no comparison to 911 in either in scale or method). Every death is a tragedy but thank god it's not in the 100's, no gas, no biological components. I grew up in London when bombs went off every now and then, and this is BAD, but it's not going to stop the city (although if train lines are damaged it'll screw the tube for months), most people worked all day and will be at work tomorrow.
It also looks like the Emergency Services have excelled themselves. Valuable experience from NYC and Madrid helped here.
My thoughts to all touched by this
Robar said: If you change your post from muslim to xtian and from the quran to the Bible, there isn't that much difference between the two. Are we to judge all xtians according to the acts of a few violent, misguided followers?
Sorry Robar but I don't agree with you on this one. Nowhere in the NT does it tell Christians that it's okay to murder non-believers. In fact, as we know, Jesus said we should "love our enemies". Islam teaches no such thing as is evident from the following verses:
9:29 Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. " It is a 'divine' commandment to persecute Jews and Christians, to defeat them in battle and then to consign them either to slavery or to death." [Surah 47:4] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! [Qu'ran 9.030] I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them [Qu'ran 8:12] It is a 'divine' commandment to persecute Jews and Christians, to defeat them in battle and then to consign them either to slavery or to death (Surah 8:39; 9:5,29: 47:4) Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. [Qu'ran 9:39]
And of course, their reward for promoting Jihad:
Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qu'ran [Qu'ran 9:11.1]I took a course on Islam last year. Well, actually, it was an introductory class to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. A Muslim student tried telling the class that Islam really doesn't mind Jews and Christians and that it refers to them in a favourable light in the Qu'ran. The teacher reiterated that unfortunately, Islam does promote hatred of Jews and Christians and proved it to him. The student shut up pretty damn quick after that. I say to each his own, but Islam is 500 years behind the times. They treat their women like garbage, they're not happy unless they're fighting someone and they have absolutely no tolerance for anyone not a Muslim.
Just like we did as Dubs....deflect the TRUTH!
We never told people they were all gonna die...if they didn't join.
We lied...or conveniently avoided this till they were "in"...then BAMMM!
Fundy Muzzies do the same...
u/d (of the no surprise here class)
Sad day in London...my heart goes out to all concerned!!!
Robdar, these comments are for you. I am no expert on the Muslim religion but I did live in Saudi Arabia for six years and worked among adherents of the Wahabi sect of Islam, which you may know is the terrorist arm of this religion. You can say what you want in defence of this religion but I have had first hand experience with the reality of it and I would like you to know that the Muslim religion does indeed teach that Jews and Christians ARE infidels, end of story.
Islam has two faces...the version they trot out for potential converts and their public image, and the REAL agenda which is that they and they alone are the TRUE religion and Allah has given them a clear mandate to destroy western civilization...they can even quote Koran scriptures to prove this. I have seen them. Muslims believe that all of mankind were born Muslim, but that most of us became APOSTATE. They teach that those who do not return to the TRUE faith will be killed and sent to Hell and this job has been given to the holy and pure people of Islam. This is what a jihad means and a jihad against Western civilization has been declared a few times since Osama Bin Laden went on international TV to declare holy war against the West, in the '90's. A JIHAD is a HOLY proclamation of death and is never recalled.
I've heard the spin Islam puts on their teachings in order to mollify the rest of the world but I am here to tell you there is indeed another reality...again being played out this time in the streets of London. There are a great number of nominal Muslims, just like there are nominal Christians and the hardcore scism of Wahabi Islam has declared death to them too. The adherents of this faction are legion, they have sent "cells" into almost every culture on earth to await the signal to rise up against their neighbours and kill them. Variations on this theme appeared every Friday in the Arab newspapers all across Saudi Arabia the whole time I was there.
The Islamic newspapers of that country regularily published articles that were inflammatory and hate filled. The "People of the Book" ie: Christians were openly sneered at on a regular basis. And the word Isreal uttered in casual conversation would get you in serious trouble with the hospital administrators. On the world map in the ward lunch room the country of Isreal had been scrubbed out with black paint. So please don't believe the Muslim spin doctoring that goes on. What kind of people publish an article all across the nation that tells it's readership that the Jews, as a part of their Sedar tradition serve up the blood of Arab and Christian children as part of the ceremony?
This bizzare article was denounced in Western magazines and newspapers but the Saudi government never retracted it.
England has the most twisted and openly seditious Muslim population I have ever read about....they have for years been milking the British system and declaring Jihad on their host country. Now they have struck just as they promised. You may believe the smoke and mirrors tactics if you like. They have the very same Theocratic Warfare teachings of the witnesses and the same elitist beliefs. This alone should have warning bells ringing like mad.
Respectfully...Zu
I say to each his own, but Islam is 500 years behind the times. They treat their women like garbage, they're not happy unless they're fighting someone and they have absolutely no tolerance for anyone not a Muslim.
It also sounds a lot like fundamental xtians. IMO, you can't excuse one and condemn the other.
Also, could you please tell me what xtianity was like 500 years ago?
Zu,
Thank you for your post. I have never been to Saudi Arabia and so do not have first hand knowledge of what you speak of. I, do, however, have many muslim friends. They are not like that. I am sorry for your experiences. But they are not mine.
I know some nice Witnesses too. But that doesn't mean their teachings aren't wrong or inflammatory. And that "people with impure motives" (to quote the Watchtower -- pardon me while I barf) won't use the teachings of their religion, good or bad, to further their own selfish ends.
"Let there be peace on earth, and let it start with me." That's what we can do.
Nina
