Explosions London Buses & Trains

by Crumpet 171 Replies latest jw friends

  • avishai
    avishai
    Avi, there is no reason to respond to my post in the extreme manner that you have. You seem to have your own anger control problems so it seems to me that you would be the better one to understand the anger of the extremists that you are so frightened of. You would be the better one to answer the questions you posed. You already know the answers but seem intent on spreading your own hatred. I leave you to it.

    Robdar and Abbaddon. Where the have i responded with hate and anger? You both continually seem to think that i paint all muslims with a broad brush and at no time have i done so. I have, however from time to time pointed out brutal scriptures in the koran. I have also done so in the bible. You continually want to compare them with christianity's heinous acts. Fine. I also disagree with fundamentalist christian violence. That's why i'm on this board. Fundamentalist jw's violating my brother, myself, and my family. You seem to have two sets of scales. . Being pissed at the JW fundies, but "understanding" Al-queda. I don't Actually, I am angry. I do hate the actions of the fundamentalists. And I'm OK with that. For some bizarre reason, you continue to think I also mean moderates, liberals, etc. and put words into my mouth that are'nt there because i happen to condemn those that choose to interpret and act on what their holy books ACTUALLY SAY , instead of reading it and picking and choosing. OK? If you want to interpret what realism for "anger" so be it.

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Crumpet,

    I am so sorry for all you and your countrymen are going thru today, it is truly a sad commentary of how inhumane humans can be. I wiped my eyes several times reading thru all of this while watching it on TV in the safety of my home. Don't ever be sorry for tears, with all the uncertainty, fear, worry for friends and loved ones and your very peace being taken away -- all of you are entitled to tears.

    And anger. I read your 'rant' to my wife...she cheered your words as I and many others did.

    My knowing people personally or just thru the board that are in that area sure brings home the reality.

    To all of you in the UK, and the friends and relatives of the workers, tourists and other innocents killed or injured...you have our sympathy.

    The Rabbits

  • Xandria
    Xandria

    How horrid! I am in tears I have friends and family over seas! Some have called in to tell us, we are okay. Still waiting to hear from 2 friends. They may be in the thick of it. I am glad you all are all right physically. Mentally and emotionally.. maybe another story.

    All this in the name of God...

    to all,
    X.

  • Moridin
    Moridin

    I'm glad you are alright Crumpet. My thoughts are with you and your fellow countrymen and women.

  • Gill
    Gill

    Crumpet!

    Glad to hear that you're OK and hope your journey home is not too difficult.

    Love

    Gill

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet
    Al Queda is no more Muslim than the IRA is Catholic. They just use religious dogma to spread their violence and hatred.

    Robdar - I'd just like to add my applause to this statement. Any religion that is fanatical, and most have had an element of it in their time, particularly the one that links us all in this, is wrong. Responding to violence with violence is stupidity, understandable perhaps, but stupid. If I had lost my parents and had been brainwashed all my life to kill those that took them from me, maybe I would be like them too.

    Luckily my version of losing my family didn't involve real death and my brainwashing didn't tell me to kill anyone. Doesn;t necessarily make it a better "cult/faith/religion".

    This is not a patch on what happened at 9-11. I appreciate the response here so much.

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Check Your Premises:

    There is a time for every purpose under heaven. Now is a time to grieve.

    Amen, I'll second that !

    Now. All of you who have hijacked this thread to argue your petty religious and political issues...start your own thread. Crumpet seemed to start this thread out of fear and to let people know what's going on. This is or should be about dead and injured people, blown up while innocently going about their lives by unseen terrorists. And about the survivors and our friends who luckily not in the wrong place at the wrong time

    I think there is plenty of time to argue politics & religion later. Sometimes some of you make me sick.

    Show a little respect...please ?

    Rabbit

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon


    Look, the religion is irrelevent. And I am not talking about large grey African animals with long noses.

    Many Muslims DON'T practice what is written in the Qu'ran. They want to lead good lives in peace with their neighbours and to praise god. They may well see some of the passages as being redolent with the culture from which they sprang, just as the Bible is seen by many Christians nowadays.

    They are not literalists, they re-interpret a cultural religious tradition in a humanistic fashion. Like most Christians. Just as literalist Christians can have the most ludicrous beliefs, just as all Christians can potentially act in a despicable fashion regardless of what their text says or doesn't say, so too can literalist Muslims believe errant nonsence (by any modern standard) and liberal Muslims choose to live in peace regardless of what their text says or doesn't say.

    The literalist Muslims are governed by their hateful take on the text, just as some Christians can have a hateful interpretation of the text (like some churches in aparthied South Africa, or silly conceits of inerrant accuracy). Others of both religions choose to be governed by the desire to live in peace (rather than what a book does or doesn't say) which is arguably what religion should be all about.

    Isalm will become more secular - just as surely as Christianity has. It's societies and cultures will develop to have the same values as ours, as 'the slow curve of humanity is towards justice', as MLK once said. Humanity expresses it's religions. Religions do not express humanity. As a culture aspires to greater levels of humanity, so too will its interpretation of its cultural spiritual history change.

    Can you give me one good reason why it won't happen to Islam as it has happened to Christianity? In other words, it isn't the religion. Looking at the religion is like staring at the fists of someone who proceeds to kick you in the balls.

    Two hundred years ago women were chattel, and we've not let them vote for 100 years yet. Black people were second class citizens IN LAW 50 years ago or less, even outside of South Africa. Our culture has changed and it is STILL Christian.

    Just as liberal Christians ignore the uncomfortable bits of the Bible, as "it doesn't matter, it's not like god dictated it, use your head", so too will Muslims ignore the uncomfortable bits of the Qu'ran.

    Please, let's get the BAD guys, no matter what pathetic excuse they have for killing people? And not lump in people as desirous of peace as you and I?

    I live in Holland. For all the fact that we do have a problem with fundamentalists, it is equally a fact we have shit loads of Muslims who are as dangerous as you average (insert inoffensive Christian denomination with regular church attendence and high moral standards), and don't want more than one wife, and whose daughter marries who she wants, as well as quite a few Muslims who are exploring 'nominal' as enthusiastically as many Christians are.

    That my friends is the future, with the trouble-makers getting less and less numerous, as working in a bank and having a family is far nicer than being a suicide bomber. Can you think how ignorant and decieved someone has to be to do that? At the end of the day, a BMW will be a far more attractive status symbol than being buried in a zip-lock bag.

    Some young people in developing Islamic cultures with big problems turn to a radical path, as do the young in any culture with big problems. The sooner they can have a basic, reasonable life there will be FAR better things for the majority of the diseffected to do, and they won't BE diseffected.

    And then you're left with the mad nutters, but you get those in all religions and ideologies..

    Hunt down the criminals.

    Eliminate poverty.

    It's enlightened self-interest; altruism is a side issue really. By eliminating poverty we will all live in a more peaceful, richer world. The rights and wrongs of terror are obvious, but what's as important as catching terrorists is starving the monster of despair that provides the foot soldiers of terror. Break the circle.

    Now, behave, or I'll type a meledy of 'Melting Pot' and 'Give Peace a Chance'.

    ADDED AS for showing respect, I agree; the greatest respect we can show is by acting to ensure it stops happening, by catching such fundamentalists and taking action to stop people becoming like that. Hyperbole is not respectful.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Oh boy. Just got the news tonight.

    My sympathy to all those who have been directly or indirectly affected I'm relieved it seems to be no one on this forum, even though some were pretty close to it. But what did happen is no less horrible.

    This is probably no time to discuss politics -- just remembering Gandhi: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

  • Check_Your_Premises
    Check_Your_Premises
    Can you give me one good reason why it won't happen to Islam as it has happened to Christianity?

    That is an excellent question, and really the fundamental one. I think we can all agree that much of the Islamic world has a lot of growing up to do. I am sure that comment will offend a few, let me explain. My evidence is that all those choosing to introduce parity in between the crimes of Islam and Christianity are forced to go back a few hundred years in Christian history. Yeah, you got your nutter Christians now-a-days, but to say the two religions are equally prolific in distributing madness is just pc pap and wishful thinking.

    One of the most important developments needed is introduction of the idea of seperation of mosque and state. I think we can all agree on that as well. While I do agree with President Bush that all people are united in that they naturally yearn for freedom, (I am just agreeing with that particular idea not how he is implementing it!!! ) I am not sure I agree that Islam is compatible with freedom. I have heard many say that Islam and Theocratic rule go hand in hand. There is no distinction in Islam between mosque and state. I am not saying that is true. I am only saying that is what I have heard.

    I hope that isn't true. I hope that Islam can, and will reform just as Christianity has. Because the alternatives are just to terrible to contemplate. I suppose the best way to keep those alternatives from coming to fruition is to make it clear that reform is the only viable option, and the only one that will be tolerated.

    Our kids are going to be dealing with this crap.

    There. I went and broke my own admonition. This is supposed to be a time to greive, and a time to stand by our British cousins.

    Glad you made it home ok Crumpy.

    (Simon won't let me use my signature anymore. I should have asked for a waiver, cuz I think it was really kick-buttocks)

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