Exposing one's identity. When?

by kairos 100 Replies latest jw friends

  • cha ching
    cha ching

    Hi Kairos, nice to hear what's going on... tho it is stressful, yes...

    It is hard to not get emotional... I myself think, "what if I saw so and so?" I hope that I will be able to think of them as a "deck of cards"... like Alice in Wonderland. When she realized they were a silly, powerless pile of paper, they had no hold, no power.

    I am not sure that 'suing' will work... from what I hear, for slander, you have to have something that you can prove the defamation has cost you a loss of money in terms of work, defaming your name? I think, in practical terms, you would have to find out the law before you tell them you will 'take them to court,' as I am not sure what you CAN do, right?

    Hang in there, remember your wife, and your life is more important than they are, and this whole "We want to meet with you" is going to take time away from your wife... It could cause turmoil... so the calmer you are, the better. Don't let them distract you.... Keep your goals.... Your life, your marriage, and don't let them get you 'started.'

    So sorry, it is so hard to go through this... You are a nice guy, with a good heart, and don't ever let them take that away from you... Keep up your self esteem, you are worth it!

    Cha Ching & Hubby

  • troubled mind
    troubled mind

    Deep breaths ,count to ten ......relax . Please I am worried for you ,and your wife that this stress is going to affect your health !

    I am glad your wife is seeking therapy ....can you go with her also as in couples therapy ? This would be good so that you can get to the heart of the problem ...the religious negative control in your lives.

    Don't let the Elders to continue to harass you . If you have faded for two years ,and have no desire to return to the Kingdom Hall,then you no longer have anything left to discuss with them ...so don't . Do not let them suck anymore life or energy from you . The next call firmly tell then NO MORE CONTACT !

    Your wife will have to come to her own conclusions .For your part focus on making your marriage priority ,she may be under the impression that with out religious unity it is doomed to fail ....this is just not true ! Just one more fallacy the JW org.promotes to keep members under their thumb and in fear.

    May I suggest :

    Try sending a certified cease ,and desist letter to the Kingdom Hall .Keep it short and to the point . You feel they are ignoring your request to be left alone ,and this is unacceptable .State what you want .No more calls ect. Then make a copy for the local police station and file it with them (Make sure the Elders know this ) It also helps to state in the letter that you are writing this under the advice of legal counsel.

    Knowing they can not call or show up unannounced at your door can give you a world of peace .I hope the best for you and your wife .

  • JWdaughter

    Hi Kairos,

    I hope your wife is ok. Ignore the dogs. I mean the elders. They are nothing. Just worry about your wife. I think you made your point with them. To pursue anything without necessity will just hurt your wife more-and yes, thats likely their goal. If they drop it, just drop it. Live your life. Be happy as your wife allows if she does allow it. She seems a bit fragile and I can see that situation itself becoming more difficult no matter what you do.I hope the best for you both. You are a cute couple, btw.

  • kairos

    We're doing really well, my wife and I.

    I told her they need to clearly understand that there is nothing to be gained from me. They need to leave me alone.

    I like the restraining order idea. Should really shake them up.

  • cha ching
    cha ching

    Do you have caller ID? When I get calls from salesmen nowadays, I simply answer the phone (do not say a word) and hang up. Very easy, non-emotional. I don't feel guilty a bit... I don't give a reason to the person 'calling for the firemen's benefit'... I simply "hang up"..... Perhaps you can try this... After a while they will get tired of dropped calls ;-)

  • cantleave
    Nice to meet you kairos
  • troubled mind
    troubled mind

    Kairos ,

    A cease and desist letter is different than a restraining order . In the USA a restraining order has to go through a Judge in court . You have to testify before a Judge and there must be proof of threatening behavior .

    Here is what worked for me : A cease and desist letter is much more simple ,and in this case usually just as effective . My local Police even suggested it to me . The Officer I spoke to told me to make a copy of my letter ,and to file it with them . He also said to send the letter to the Elders ,and send it certified . After they received notice if they made any more contact to report it back to the Police station ,which I did, and they would explain what cease and desist means to the Elders ,(which they did). It helps to include in the letter that you are sending it per legal advice .He explained it really does not hold that much legal weight when it comes down to it ,but in this case it is usually enough to make them stop annoying you .

    I live in a small town ,and that may be why the Police were so helpful . If you don't get the same kind of help ,you may want to consider using your own personal lawyer to help draft a letter . All I know is that after I sent my letter the harassment stopped ,which is all I ever wanted ....to be left alone in peace . I have no idea what has been said to others at the hall ,and I do not care . Most Witnesses shun me in public ,but a few still say Hi once in a while .

  • R. Jerome Harris
    R. Jerome Harris

    I have come to learn not to fear men and their religious organizations. But to fear God.

    When I was an active JW (married to a Pioneer), I had begun to develop some serious doubts and formulated questions the WT would constantly dodge, I did something bold: I purchased the late ex-GB member Raymond Franz books "In Search of Christian Freedom" and "Crisis of Conscience" and placed them in among my many Watch Tower publications. I would read them in plain view of my wife.

    At first, she did not notice what I was reading until one day she ask me, "Honey, what are you reading?" I answered, "In Search of Christian Freedom" by Brother Franz.

    She went ballistic right on the spot! She would not stop yelling at me. It was almost as if she lost her mind or was possessed by a demon (I believe truth agitates demons). Did she snitch? Of course she did. I was counting on it. Almost immediately I lost all "privileges" in the congregation. Few would speak to me. I was told by many of Elders how terrible a person Raymond Franz and Ed Dunlap were. I told them, "I would never know because the WT organization has a system in place that prevents me and others from knowing the truth." I asked the Elders, "Do any of you know Ray Franz or have ever met him? If you have not, then you do not have a sound basis to say anything about his character?" It is like being found guilty without a trial and jury. The jury being all JWs. Some one decides matters for us and tells us who is a friend or foe. You might as well cut up my steak and potatoes for me too! It is an insult to my intelligence and reasoning powers when an organization thinks that I am incapable to think and reason for myself."

    After reading both of his books, I knew Ray Franz spoke the truth because he was not an angry man with an ax to grind. After all that the organization put him (and his wife through), he was loving and concerned. Not a vindictive bone in his body. Rather, it was the WT organization that acted in a manner not befitting a disciple of Christ.

    The WT reminded me of how the Pharisees and Jewish Leaders treated Jesus.

    Yet ...

    When one is afraid to leave any organization (religious or non-religious), then they have more fear of men than they do God.

    And if you are afraid, then you are not free and you will always be entrapped (held captive).

    No true disciple of Christ is fearful of men.

    Jesus said at Matthew 10:28:

    "And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

    Solomon in Proverbs 29:25 said:

    "Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is kept safe."

  • Giordano

    Example Harassment Cease & Desist

    The following is an example cease and desist letter for harassment. This cease and desist template should not be used without first consulting with an experienced attorney.

    Click here for more cease and desist letter templates.

    People using this form should edit out the brackets [ ] and fill in the appropriate information that is applicable to themselves.

    Also, anyone using this will want to be as detailed as possible when naming specific instances of unwanted behavior.

    Read over this form carefully before sending it out in order to make sure that all of the information you have supplied is accurate.

    When you send this letter to the perpetrator, allow 15 days for a response. This gives the perpetrator time to receive the letter (the mail can be slow sometimes), read it over, examine his/her own legal rights, and mail it back (allowing time for the letter to slowly move through the mail on the return trip).

    Make sure that the perpetrator’s activities actually fall outside the scope of his/her legal rights. Remember, people sometimes do annoying or creepy things, but those things are not always illegal. If someone is acting an a way that is still bothersome to you but those activities do not necessarily fall within the definition of stalking or harassment,this may not be the appropriate remedy and you may need to pursue a different course of action.

    Free Download of Cease and Desist Letter for Harassment

    → CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD harassment-cease-and-desist.doc

    [Your name]
    [Your address]

    [Perpetrator’s name]
    [Perpetrator’s address]

    [Today’s date]

    RE: Cease and desist from [stalking/harassing/etc.]

    Dear [Perpetrator]:

    This CEASE AND DESIST ORDER is to inform you that your persistent actions including but not limited to [insert actions here (example: calling me in the middle of the night and hanging up, waiting outside my house, etc)] have become unbearable. You are ORDERED TO STOP such activities immediately as they are being done in violation of the law.

    I have the right to remain free from these activities as they constitute [harassment/stalking/etc.], and I will pursue any legal remedies available to me against you if these activities continue. These remedies include but are not limited to: contacting law enforcement to obtain criminal sanctions against you, and suing you civilly for damages I have incurred as a result of your actions.

    Again, you must IMMEDIATELY STOP [unwanted activities] and send me written confirmation that you will stop such activities. You risk incurring some very severe legal consequences if you fail to comply with this demand.

    This letter acts as your final warning to discontinue this unwanted conduct before I pursue legal actions against you. At this time, I am not contacting the authorities or filing civil suit against you, as I hope we can resolve this matter without authoritative involvement. I am not under any circumstances, however, waiving any legal rights I have presently, or future legal remedies against you by sending you this letter. This order acts as ONE FINAL CHANCE for you to cease your illegal activities before I exercise my rights.

    To ensure compliance with this letter, and to halt any legal action I may take against you, I require you to fill in and sign the attached form and mail it back to me within 10 days of your receipt of this letter. Failure to do so will act as evidence of your infringement upon my legal rights, and I will immediately seek legal avenues to remedy the situation.


    [your signature]___
    [your printed name]


  • kairos

    Nice template.

    I expect I will need it immediately after what happened this morning.


    I woke up to a really painful and real dream.

    I'm still processing the details. I told my wife that I must have the elders understand that I want nothing to do with their religion or any future phone or personal calls.

    I told her it would be better to stay out of this.

    Short story is this, I ended on the phone again with two elder on speaker phone.

    I clearly told them that they may NEVER call me again.
    I phrased it three different ways, each more clear than the last with only a yes or no answer to communicate their intentions.

    They could not do this. This was over the speaker phone on my end with my wife listening too, so everything they said was witnessed by three people and cannot be disputed.

    They told me they read my letter.
    I called them out on this, as it clearly states throughout the text that it's written communication from here on. So they both lied.

    He said he didn't have time to read it, as he was out of town on Sunday giving a talk...

    Bottom line, I told them both to "FUCK OFF". ( twice )

    Yes there were three witnesses to that.

    I hope they recorded the entire thing, as why would they ever want to share how they care for the sheep with anyone else. Damn, that would be embarrassing...

    Oh, the fun! ( NOT )

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