by RichieRich 138 Replies latest jw friends
wow that's cool taking down a boar with 9mm . See now folks there are people hunting with pistols . I think people just have stereotypes when it comes to things like this .
edited to add --- If guns are outlawed then only outlaws would have guns !!!!!!!!
Sorry guys you missed the forest thru the trees....99% of hunting does not use handguns...ya'll know that. But that's really not the point.
Heathen....in Japan guns are outlawed and only the police and the Yakuza have guns. Japan has 97% less gun deaths.
As I have REPEATEDLY said.....I'm not for banning guns. But you pro-gun nuts have to simply acknowlege that 29,500 gun deaths per year is an acceptable price to pay for our "guns for all" culture. I've had at least 6 guns myself....was taught to shoot a BB gun at 11 or 12. Had a .22 at 16.
Any attempt to pass any licensing or limits is met with gun nuts and the NRA protesting any involvement. I don't see this as being very honest. Just admit you're ok with thousand upon thousands of deaths per year as the price that must be paid and I'll drop it. :)
Just admit you're ok with thousand upon thousands of deaths per year as the price that must be paid and I'll drop it. :)
Thats fine. It is sad that there are that many deaths. However, I practice strict safety and would only shoot in a person in DEFENSE of my life. So if that many die next year, I know it won't be me.
I know it's a callus stance... but I'm fine with it.
Richie... I appreciate your candor. It's at least an honest position in this debate.
I assume you would be for licensing since you have had a great deal of training? Take a 1 weekend "safe shooting" course or something similar? Have various private groups, community colleges, or whatnot administering the training?
I assume you would be for licensing since you have had a great deal of training? Take a 1 weekend "safe shooting" course or something similar? Have various private groups, community colleges, or whatnot administering the training?
Definitely. Hunter Safety Education Classes (required in almost all states) touch briefly on gun safety, however, Not everyone with a gun hunts.
I know I would volunteer my time to get folks out there shooting and having a good time. And like someone said earlier, the more little kids know about guns, the less curious they are.
You're on the ball with this one...
EF,
As I have REPEATEDLY said.....I'm not for banning guns. But you pro-gun nuts have to simply acknowlege that 29,500 gun deaths per year is an acceptable price to pay for our "guns for all" culture.
I believe that is an erroneous argument, you are linking two things that are not linked. Lets apply your logic to another industry, construction tools. There are thousands of deaths each year on construction sites, so I guess from your perspective, we either need to stop construction activities or simply admit that anyone who works in construction is OK with all the deaths, that's just the price we have to pay to work in construction. What are you smokin', man?
Just because I own a gun, does not mean that I am OK with even a single gun death, unless it is the death of a criminal while he's trying to hurt or kill someone innocent. Criminals will commit violent crimes with anything. What about kitchen knives? How many people each year are stabbed to death with kitchen knives? Should we all just admit that these deaths are simply the price we kitchen knife nuts pay to have our kitchen knives?
As as already been stated a thousand times before, it is NOT the object (the gun, the knife, the commercial circular saw) that kills people, its the people misusing that tool or refusing to follow proper safety routines.
I don't see this as being very honest. Just admit you're ok with thousand upon thousands of deaths per year as the price that must be paid and I'll drop it. :)
Sorry, not gonna happen, because your linking of the two, your premise, is incorrect.
It's been an interesting discussion though, and on the other threads I usually agree with you.
Brandon
Pole
Thanks for the links about Enigma. I didn't know about the Polish work that was essential in utilising the incomplete set of rotors the British captured. Is the reason you know of the Pole-ish involvement as obvious as it might seem, or is that a coincidence?
If I ever have some land where I could shoot game; pidgeon, wildfowl, rabbits, etc. then I will get a shotgun and find somewhere I could go to learn to use if safely. My girlfriend would be beside herself with delight if I killed something for her to cook.
If I ever lived in certain parts of the US, or in certain parts of the world, I would ensure I had firearms for personal protection and ensure everyone in the family was educated in either gun safety or use, according to their age.
I don't think that people that use illegal drugs are all in the illuminati control camp either
Well, if one ignores the fact I think you've read one Dan Brown novel too many heathen, I agree with you...
*inhales, pauses, exhales*
But hell, where I am sitting certain drugs are only technically illegal; you can buy pot in shops here.
Funny thing about the people who claim there is an Illuminati conspiracy, is that they claim they are 'illuminated', and 'we' are in darkness...
Hey... you're working for them, aren't you heathen? Your bosses are paying you to make sure everyone dismisses the Illuminati Conspiracy as an obsession for monomaniacs.
Golly, aren't our lizard overlords clever! They fooled me completely!
"Dr. Ted Miller, National Public Services Research Institute examined the link between gun ownership rates and firearms death within Canadian provinces, the United States, England/Wales and Australia and concluded that 92% of the variance in death rates was explained by access to firearms in those areas. He suggested that a 1% increase (or decrease) in the percentage of households with guns in Canada would be associated with a 5.8% increase (or decrease) in the Canadian gun death rate.(T. Miller, M. Cohen. ""Costs of Gunshot and Cut/Stab Wounds in the United States, with some Canadian Comparisons. "" Accid Anal Prev 1997; 29 (3): 329-41.)"
"The international experience with firearms regulation and comparative mortality statistics tend to reinforce the thesis that there is a link between access to firearms and firearm death in industrialized countries, although there are issues around uniform reporting and other variables that must be addressed."
"For example, a review of 13 countries showed that there was a strong correlation between gun ownership and both homicide with a gun and overall homicide rates (Killias excluded Northern Ireland from the analysis because of the level of civil unrest). In an analysis of 14 countries, the correlation between gun ownership and gun suicide was also significant, as was the correlation of gun ownership with overall suicide rates. Killias found no evidence of a compensation process whereby other means were substituted with firearms. (Killias, M. ""International Correlations between Gun Ownership and Rate of Homicide and Suicide."" Canadian Medical Association Journal. 1993;148 (10): 1721-5) "
"In another study, based on a standardized survey of victimization in fifty-four countries, gun ownership was significantly related to both the level of robberies and the level of sexual assaults. The relationship between levels of gun ownership and threats/assaults with a gun is also strong. Van Dijk also concluded that high levels of gun ownership such as in the USA, the former Yugoslavia, South Africa and several Latin American countries are strongly related to higher levels of violence generally."
"Canada has always had stronger firearms regulation than the United States, particularly with respect to handguns. In Canada, handguns have been licensed and registered since the 1930’s, ownership of guns has never been regarded as a right and several court rulings have reaffirmed the right of the government to protect citizens from guns. Handgun ownership has been restricted to police, members of gun clubs or collectors. Very few (about 50 in the country) have been given permits to carry handguns for ""self-protection."" This is only possible if an applicant can prove that their life is in danger and the police cannot protect them."
"As a result, Canada has roughly 1 million handguns while the United States has more than 76 million. While there are other factors affecting murder, suicide and unintentional injury rates, a comparison of data in Canada and the United States suggests that access to handguns may play a role. While the murder rate without guns in the US is roughly equivalent (1.8 times) to that of Canada, the murder rate with handguns is 14.5 times the Canadian rate. The costs of firearms death and injury in the two countries have been compared and estimated to be $495 (US) per resident in the United States compared to $195 per resident in Canada."
Year Canada US US/CAN
Population 1998 30.2 m 270 m 8.9x
Number of All Firearms 1998 7.4 m 222 m 30x
Number of Handguns 1998 1.2 m 76 m 63.3x
Guns per capita 1997 0.25 0.82 3.3x
"Firearms Death (Rate per 100,000)* " Canada US US/Can
Accidental deaths with Firearms 1998 0.2 0.3 1.5x
Suicides with Firearms 1998 3.4 6.4 1.9x
Total Firearms Deaths 1998 4.3 11.4 2.7x
"Crime Statistics (Rate per 100,000) " Canada US US/Can
Murders with Firearms 1998 0.5 4.4 7.9x
Murders with Handguns 1998 0.23 3.3 14.5x
Murders without Guns 1998 1.3 2.3 1.8x
Robberies with Guns 1998 18 63 3.5x
Roberries without Guns 1998 78 102 1.3x
Canada US Can/US
"Overall Homicide rate per 100,000 " 1998 1.83 6.62 3.6x
% of homicides with firearms 1998 27.30% 66% 2.4x
% of firearm homicides with handguns 1998 46% 75% 1.6x
"Statistics compiled from Centre for Justice Statistics; FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Data, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada Homicide Survey; Research and Statistics Division Department of Justice (Kwing Hung) June 2001 "
Sorry Brandon...your argument is not similar at all....but sure let's use it for shites & grins....
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (www.bls.gov), 13,502 construction workers died in the United States due to work-related injuries from 1992 through 2003 – an average of 1,125 fatalities each year. The most common accident at construction sites is falls, either on the same level or from height. More fatalities occur from falls than any other construction activity combined. Almost 60% are falls. So this leaves about 500 deaths a year from non-falls that would include heart attack, heat stroke, nail gun fatalities, crushing, etc...
OSHA strictly monitors construction sites and enforces the laws. The rule book of "safe construction" is large. All meant to protect the worker. If there is a fatality on site then OSHA/Governement is on-site to investigate. Rules are constantly updated to continually minimize risks on site. Even as a private individual I would need to apply for all sort of permits and approval processes from the various local governments. The building inspector is also ever prevelant making sure that the construction process itself is meeting applicable saftey codes.
Now...I decide to walk into the gun shop....plunk down a few bucks....possibly wait a few days to pick it up....I now own a firearm. No license. No training. No permit.
See we treat the construction industry with far more scrutiny than the gun industry. It is a fact of life that going into construction is more dangerous than other fields...no doubt. So yeah, you have to be honest and admit that there are some "unnecessary" deaths in construction but look at all the rules, procedures, and enforcement in that field and compare them to gun ownership.
My statement about admitting 29,500 deaths was ok...was that the gun nuts and NRA don't want ANY additional regulation or licensing...so how do you refute that? We will never get to zero gun deaths just like there will always be deaths on construction sites. But what other steps can be taken to minimize gun deaths my dear Brandon, when the NRA fights tool and nail against ANY restrictions / protections under the "slippery slope" guize (sp)?
