Narkissos,
By "should" and "should not" I mean that if the Reality is, we do not have "free will", then the notion of setting up the "game" with reward and punishment is simply superfluous. (Yet, I still accept the fact that these operands are embedded in the "game".)
siegswife,
I do not see an alternative to being "me". I know that I am me, and I accept that. I also know that you are you, and I accept that.
This, however, does not detract from the issue, the question: "Does what is ME have "free will" or not? Same for you!
You say that you are free to choose to be you. I would say you do not have a choice in the matter, because you can only be you. How is that being "free"?
You talk about "learning from your choices" and "mature to being the best me I can be." But if the "choices" you make are pre-determined by your nature, personality, biology, culture, etc. then I put it to you that you are NOT really making "free choices". This also calls into question whether you are really "learning" anything. You are merely "unfolding" to become what you already are. Like the caterpillar who turns into the butterfly, it is inevitable and built-in. You do not become the "best ME I can be". You are simply inevitably manifesting what you already are; it's just that it takes time to come out for all to see, including yourself (self-discovery?????)
How, then does "I can" imply you have "freedom of choice"?
zen nudist,
Of course we are players in the game, ...active participants out for our own benefit. I would argue that if there is no "free will", that we are "out for our own benefit" by nature, and hence, no choice but to do so.
You say that we are "relatively free to act in our own best interests." But the only "freedom" we have here is that Society allows you the external freedom to do so. This, however, does not imply that internally you are "freely choosing" what may be in your best interest. The decision-making part of you has already been moulded into what it is, that gives it the pre-disposition to choose what it does. That is the Illusion here. You only think you are "free" because no-one outside your being is forcing you to choose one way or the other. But inside yourself, you cannot help how you choose because you are the essence that you are. Too bad, so sad, but that's the way it is.
You say "....we are also able to punish others who violate our goals". But if "free will" is an illusion, then the punishment we inflict on others is merely our inevitable reaction to someone else's inevitable actions against us.
You mentioned "goals". If there is no "free will" then we are fooling ourselves into thinking we can have them. Goals are plans to reach something we are striving towards at some future date. But every action-reaction, planning and thought process is merely a mechanical, deterministic function of our pre-determined "self". We are not really "going" anywhere, and neither are we "arriving" at some kind of destination. In short, goals are "illusory" and the products of our own imaginations.
You say "the only reason we ever act is because of "discontent or dissatisfaction". I would argue that this is an inevitable mental state, in reaction to some situation we are in, or that we empathetically relate to with another person in their circumstances.
You say that "others....are often in our thoughts, and their well-being is part of our well-being". I would say that we live "in our thoughts", which is our brain talking to ourself, weighing pros and cons, making decisions, triggering emotions- using words or vocabulary which are symbols of "meaning" we have attached to them. All of this has been inculcated into us by what we call "education" or "learning". But to maintain there is no "free will" is to imply that all of these processes and accumulations in a "cause and effect" universe is simply a mechanistic flow from Point "A" to Point "B" to Point "C", etc. At each minute step of the way, this is deterministically cumulative, so that the outcomes are inevitable. No responsibility can be assigned.
Why should we "care" about anything in a pre-determined universe? Besides, even the "Caring" would also be inevitable, because what we are, decides whether we care or not!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am telling you all, that we HAVE TO HAVE FREE WILL, or all is pointless and meaningless, and without choice or responsibility, or right or wrong or morality, and reward and punishment is redundant. No "free will" is insanity! IMHO It's just that I am having one heck of a time finding out How or at what level we do, in fact, have "free will".
Rod P.