Do we have "Free Will" or is it an illusion?

by Rod P 134 Replies latest members private

  • Rod P
    Rod P

    Little Toe,

    I view myself (and all of us) as having a "Spirit" inside a Body. When the body dies, the Spirit that is "Me" goes elsewhere.

    Actually, I subscribe to the notion that we have a body inside of which is a spirit, inside of which is a higher vibratory "spirit" inside of which is another higher vibratory "spirit".

    Let me try to explain this another way. I believe in a multi-dimensional universe. The world we are living in now is the "physical plane". The next plain is the "Astral Plane". The next one above that is the "Mental Plain". Then there is the "Causal Plane". Above that is what is called the "Soul Plane". Now these separate dimensions or "worlds" are superimposed upon one another, but are separated by "vibrations". The physical plane is the most "dense", the astral plane is "less dense" and so on. In some respects they are like the layers of an onion. Except the onion analogy is deficient because each layer is separate from each other, whereas these "Worlds" are coexisting together, but separated only by "vibrational levels".

    We have a "body" for each of these "worlds" or levels. To understand who we are, we need to turn within ourselves (i.e. Attunement = At-one-ment). We need to plummet the depths of our "Being" to become aware of these other levels of being that we are and have. This is why I also believe that "out of body" experiences are real. I believe that most Creative ability, like that of the Artist or the Musician is a case of those minds tuning into the Astral World where "thoughts are things" and what the "mind thinks, it creates and causes to come into being". At the higher planes we may encounter advanced Spiritual Beings, who can also guide us when we are ready.

    Given this description, I believe we have lived more than once, more than this one life we are living in. But I know that most people on the JWD forum pooh-pooh the whole notion of "Reincarnation", and I can live with that. I do try to avoid all the controversy this surrounds by not bringing it up. It's just that I find it unreasonable that if we live on after we die, then how is it we come into existence for the first time when we are born into This Life? I think that is just illogical. We start out now, but then live forever. Hmmm! What's wrong with this picture? I could get into some very lively discussions about the experiences of others with amazing recollections of past lives, age regression under hypnosis, philosophical discussions, and evidences for reincarnation in the Bible and other contemporary manuscripts, etc., Hinduism, Buddhism, various Mythologies, near death (or life-after-life) experiences, and a host of other topics that have a bearing on this topic. But I will forego the pleasure.

    I hope that gives you a better picture of how I see the universe(s).

    Rod P.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I completely follow what you're saying.
    IMHO this body is but a vehicle for a tri-part person, one part being a shard of existence of the divine.

    While I may or may not agree on all the details, I salute you on all points...

  • Rod P
    Rod P

    Little Toe,

    Would you care to elaborate on your "tri-part person, one part being a shard of existence of the divine." Also, how do you see the universe?

    Rod P.

  • Rod P
    Rod P

    Terry,

    Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this.

    I am referring to your post of May 23/05 19:31.

    After a review of your comments, I have come to the conclusion that I agree with pretty well everything you say there, except for your following statements:

    "In effect, we are talking about a pure ideal. And, to refresh your mind on this matter, an ideal is a postulate and not a referent. IDEALS are mock-ups of intangible and non-existing perfect possibilities. Coming from where? Our imagination...........Free Will is an ideal and not a reality."

    Respectfully, I disagree. I do not see Free Will as an ideal merely coming from our imagination, simply because you can demonstrate that pretty well everything we "choose" in this physical life is without "free will", or is merely "conforming to our nature".

    Your argument does succeed in establishing that we do not have "free will" at this physical level, and that is precisely what I have been arguing all along. But then, if every choice or decision we make in this physical life is without "free will", does it necessarily follow that the "postulate" is simply an imaginary ideal?

    Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that there is more to this universe than the physical one we live in and are familiar with in our day-to-day existence. What if there are planes of existence, or other dimensions of which our "physical brains" are simply unaware. Just because we do not have a physical perception of something thru our sensory apparatus in its present state does not prove that they do not or cannot exist. Therefore, your statement that "free will" is an ideal from the imagination may not necessarily be true. It simply proves your unawareness of it.

    (Now I also know that you could equally argue that the fact that you and I may not be physically aware of other worlds or dimensions, proves that therefore the evidence is on your side that anything beyond the physical realm is imaginary, and should not be given any credence. I would counter, however, that there are many, many indirect evidences for these other "worlds" that could be seriously considered as strong evidence for their existence.)

    So now, the point is, if there is a bigger reality than just this physical plane, then "Free Will", the kind that is not pre-conditioned or pre-determined, may well be the Reality here, rather than an illusory ideal coming from the imagination. As a matter of fact, the creative faculty of the Imagination may well be functioning from, or have it's origin from a higher level (eg. astral plane) which we are simply tuning into like we tune a radio or television into a broadcast message/image. But that is another subject.

    Perhaps what this all comes down to, Terry, is that we may just agree to disagree.

    Rod P.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Rod:
    We discussed it, in part, here:
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/81048/1.ashx

    Regarding the universe, my view is of an omnipresent "God", which isn't quite Pantheist, but isn't far off.

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