a friend in need (page 36)

Double Edge

but you like the ones here who still think it's real like the WWF don't you

You mean the WWF isn't real?

On page 15 of this thread ... post # 294 ... os admits that an elder has said he will answer os' questions as long as os is sincere. Now, other than directing him to www.watchtower.org , is that not what I suggested he do all along???? And he is still blubbering about my not giving him scriptural answers. If he could make a living by whining, he'd be a rich man.

sf

asked the sister who studied with me

Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a man who paints naked ladies or even a guy who plays with micro chips for a living to figure out that this person is not a dedictated, BAPTIZED jw.

What it DOES state, in just a few words here, is that this person used to study, hence..."the sister I STUDIED with" and was not dedicated enough and/ or could not satisfy the elders enough with the baptism questions to, in fact, be baptized into the org. Or has not been able to give up some part of "satans trappings" in order to BE baptized.

There are many of these types in the jw yahoo chatroom, whom expound the virtues of jehovah and the watchtower enough make it APPEAR "as if" they are baptized. Yet upon interrogation of the nasty, evil apostate-kind, they indeed end up showing their true colors.

You gave it a good go here AFIN, yet it was clear, at least to me, even from the filip thread that you have never been baptized into this organizations religion.

That's a good thing by the way.

Take good care sista.

sKally

Blueblades

Wow! Phew! . I zip my lips.This whole discussion is settled with Seven 006's response. No inspired Bible, end of conversation.

Blueblades

RescueMe

my not giving him scriptural answers

You cannot give what you do not have.

Double Edge

AFIN.....

I've never been a JW, so, other than having a close friend who's a JW, my input would be very underwhelming. I would like you to entertain this thought though... when I first came to this site, it had been operating for some time. One day, I thought it would interesting to read the first several pages of the website ... go to the beginning. I was hooked. This site started out as a "pro" JW site. What I found intriguing was how people and this site started to evolve over a several month period. It was like everyone was discovering what it was like to ask openly honest questions. You might want to try that...start at the beginning, and you'll see why this site has grown so much. Honestly, there's a bunch of really nice and wonderful people on this board.....

D.E.

RescueMe

Old Soul writes:

I was trying to give him/her the benefit of the doubt

So was I when I went to the site as suggested. I'm always willing to give the benefit of the doubt, and am always open to the truth. I am a firm believer in not just accepting what I am told without finding out the truth for myself. I ask questions, I seek information, and go from there. I NEVER blindly follow along because I was given a brain to use for a reason, so I put those cells to use. I sometimes piss people off because I don't "just accept". I used to live with a BS artist, I know how they operate, and am oh so familiar how easy it is for them to shovel it, and have encountered more then a few "artists of the BS variety" along the path of my life, so I am familiar with the smell, and I don't just place a closepin over my nose and ignore the stench anymore.

frenchbabyface

this whole conversation AFIN is not only directed to you but to all those who are still in the JW "mindset" from the beginning of this thread till now ... and ever

Now you asking OS to ask and Elder is just well the same as you asking him to ask the WTBS (do you understand that at least) but I'm with Seven006 here you like this site don't you ... you're just still lost apparently (WHAT'S REALLY IN YOUR HEAD ?) you can talk here you know and you do ... you're just a scared cat which is can't speak for her/himself ... is this a life ? do you live for the WTBS ? what do they bring to you, for you being here ... hang in there we're not gonna let you down ...

shadow

My latest response to shadow:
shadow: "If the scriptures using this term are being misapplied and should really refer to individuals rather than a class, would that preclude the formation of some organizational administration that could be instrumental in helping people adhere to the scriptures? If those scriptures were not applied in the way that they are and the arrangement was still the same would there still be a problem?"
Yes. There would still be a problem, especially if a select group presumed to speak for the entire group. Currently, the Faithful and Discreet Slave is the pen name of the Governing Body.

Yes, there is a problem.

Now among those present at the meeting in Jerusalem in Acts 15 (oops) were people from all over that had come together to meet, having personal experiences to share and taking part the heated dispute (which obviously was not a product of "disorder") over the matter of circumcision and the requirement to continue adhering to the Mosaic Law covenant. This is the only scriptural example we see of how the "governing body" of old worked, and it does not come close to resembling the GB of today.

I really don't see much evidence that there was a GB in the first century.

Currently, for the rank and file Witness, the Faithful and Discreet Slave to all intents and purposes equals the Governing Body. Currently, their decisions are reached by a 2/3 majority. Currently is 85% of the Faithful and Discreet Slave (which has still not scripturally been established as a class of people) feel one way, but 2/3 of the Governing Body feel differently, I know which way the Watchtower will say Jehovah's spirit directed. And I suspect you do too.

No question about it.

So, I have to say, if the arrangement does not allow for individuals but forces all into a "united" mold not of their choosing and possibly contrary to the leadings of holy spirit, then yes, there would still be the same problem.

Quite true

I don't intend to be confrontational but you seem to be asking, "If another way of doing it accomplishes the same objective would there still be a problem?" My response would be, "Should we do 'just so' or should we do 'near enough'?"

The Society works hard to derive their authority by direct divine appointment and leans heavily on what they consider to be a first-century precedent, but for many with intelligence, knowledge and perhaps personal experience, this emperor has no clothes. Does this alone mean that Jehovah can not be using JW's? Many times in the past Jehovah allowed his people to develop their own structures of authority.

Scriptural examples:

(Exodus 18:17-24) 17

At this Moses? father-in-law said to him: "It is not good the way you are doing. 18 You will surely wear out, both you and this people who are with you, because this business is too big a load for you. You are unable to do it by yourself. 19 Now listen to my voice. I shall advise you, and God will prove to be with you. You yourself serve as representative for the people before the [true] God, and you yourself must bring the cases to the [true] God. 20 And you must warn them of what the regulations and the laws are, and you must make known to them the way in which they should walk and the work that they should do. 21 But you yourself should select out of all the people capable men, fearing God, trustworthy men, hating unjust profit; and you must set these over them as chiefs over thousands, chiefs over hundreds, chiefs over fifties and chiefs over tens. 22 And they must judge the people on every proper occasion; and it must occur that every big case they will bring to you, but every small case they themselves will handle as judges. So make it lighter for yourself, and they must carry the load with you. 23 If you do this very thing, and God has commanded you, you will then certainly be able to stand it and, besides, this people will all come to their own place in peace." 24 Immediately Moses listened to the voice of his father-in-law and did all that he had said.

This was not a divinely mandated arrangement. The suggestion was made by a non-Israelite who quite possibly worshipped other gods. Still this seems to have been acceptable in Jehovah's eyes.

(1 Chronicles 23:1-5) 23

And David himself had grown old and satisfied with days, and so he made Sol´o·mon his son king over Israel. 2 And he proceeded to gather all the princes of Israel and the priests and the Levites. 3 Accordingly the Levites were numbered from the age of thirty years upward; and their number, head by head of them, able-bodied man by able-bodied man, came to be thirty-eight thousand. 4 Of these for acting as supervisors over the work of the house of Jehovah there were twenty-four thousand; and as officers and judges six thousand; 5 and four thousand gatekeepers and four thousand givers of praise to Jehovah on the instruments that [David said] "I have made for giving praise."

We all know of David's past, yet here he is instituting some organizational structure without instructions to do so. Other examples could be cited but let's move up to the first century. By that time the Jews had come up with their own arrangement of the synagogues. The religious leaders were haughty and corrupt.

(Matthew 23:1-3) 23

Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform.

Jesus publicly condemned these men. He and his disciples did not obey them. So why did he make the curious statement "Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe"? Just my personal opinion, but Jesus clearly knew when the leaders were wrong, others probably did not know. Still, Jesus continued to teach in the synagogues and worship at the temple. It seems we have a similar situation now.

mtbatoon

I took afin?s advice and went to www.watchtower.org . Nice article about birds at the top of the page and why they have such pretty feathers. Really answered all the questions that where bugging me.

a friend in need

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