a friend in need

by OldSoul 604 Replies latest members private

BlackSwan of Memphis

Fin, if you can honestly provide evidence to show that the Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witnesses are truly the faithful and discreet slave I will reconsider everything.
RescueMe

Well I have to admit that I was curious why someone would send you to a website rather than give scriptural responses found within the bible to support the beliefs as stated. I went to the site as suggested and found no answers there to the questions that were raised. I did find that they state

A person should make sure that his beliefs can be supported by the Scriptures
So if this is what they are saying, then why cannot scriptures be shown to support those beliefs? I'm just curious about that. I am not asking to offend anyone or cause a problem, rather just to satisfy my own curiousity. I would think that if you can show scripture to support your belief then why not do so? If you cannot, then why not just admit to that?
SpannerintheWorks

If the Bibble was inspired of God it would not be so ambiguous and you would not be wasting your time here when you could be living your short life to the full without all those cultic mindsets.
stevenyc

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http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1997/6/1/article_02.htm
The Dangers of Religious Secrecy
In view of such occurrences, is it any wonder that many people cast a wary eye in the direction of religious groups? Certainly no one would want to support a secret organization?religious or nonreligious?that misuses his trust and causes him to pursue goals with which he does not agree. What can people do, though, to avoid falling into the trap of involvement with secret societies of a questionable nature?
Obviously, anyone considering membership in a secret society would be wise to ascertain its real objectives. Pressure from friends or acquaintances should be guarded against, and decisions ought to be based not on emotion but on facts. Remember, it is likely the individual himself?not others?who will be called upon to suffer any possible consequences.
Following Bible principles is the surest method of steering clear of dangerous groups whose motives are less than honorable. (Isaiah 30:21) This involves maintaining political neutrality, showing love to others, even to enemies, avoiding "the works of the flesh," and cultivating the fruitage of God's spirit. Above all, true Christians must be no part of the world, even as Jesus was no part, and this course precludes participating in worldly secret societies.?Galatians 5:19-23; John 17:14, 16; 18:36; Romans 12:17-21; James 4:4.
Jehovah's Witnesses are earnest students of the Bible who take their faith seriously and try openly to live accordingly. Worldwide, they are well-known as a religious group that 'seeks peace and pursues it.' (1 Peter 3:11) Their book Jehovah's Witnesses?Proclaimers of God's Kingdom correctly notes: "Jehovah's Witnesses are in no sense a secret society. Their Bible-based beliefs are fully explained in publications that are available to anyone. Additionally, they put forth special effort to invite the public to attend meetings to see and hear for themselves what takes place."
True religion in no way practices secretiveness. Worshipers of the true God have been instructed not to hide their identity or to obscure their purpose as Jehovah's Witnesses. The early disciples of Jesus filled Jerusalem with their teaching. They were out in the open as to their beliefs and activity. The same is true of Jehovah's Witnesses today. Understandably, when dictatorial regimes wrongfully restrict freedom of worship, Christians must cautiously and courageously carry on their activity, obeying "God as ruler rather than men," a situation that is forced upon them because of their courageous public witness.?Acts 5:27-29; 8:1; 12:1-14; Matthew 10:16, 26, 27.
If it ever crossed your mind that Jehovah's Witnesses might be a secret cult or sect, that was likely because you knew too little about them. That must have been the situation with many in the first century.
Acts chapter 28 tells us of a meeting that the apostle Paul had in Rome with "the principal men of the Jews." They said to him: "We think it proper to hear from you what your thoughts are, for truly as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against." (Acts 28:16-22) In response, Paul "explained the matter to them by bearing thorough witness concerning the kingdom of God," and "some began to believe." (Acts 28:23, 24) It certainly was to their lasting benefit to get the actual facts concerning true Christianity.
Dedicated as they are to the open and public service of God, Jehovah's Witnesses will be happy to reveal the plain facts of their activity and beliefs to anyone who cares to know the facts. Why not investigate for yourself, thus being in position to be properly informed as to their faith?
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Thank you for the suggestion of searching on the watchtower site. I found this article of interest. How far in a self investigation of JW's should one go to get the actual facts, be properly informed and ascertain its real objectives.
Steve.
Sunspot

UGH!
Steve, I just lost my lunch after reading your post.
Annie
OldSoul

a f i n, you are either being hypocritical in you presence here (if at the direction or by permission of others) or you are violating the direction of the very Organization? you claim to support.
In your refusal to provide Scriptural proofs, you reject the teachings of your own Organization?. Want proof? Do a search on the Watchtower Library CD-ROM using "use the scriptures" and you will find each of the following articles, among others.
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w95 1/1 pp. 24-25 "Out of the Mouth of Babes" ***
In Costa Rica, Rigoberto recognized the ring of truth when two classmates used the Bible to answer his questions about the Trinity, the soul, and hellfire. What they said carried weight with him not only because of their ability to use the Scriptures but also because their excellent conduct was so different from what he had witnessed in the churches of Christendom. In spite of family opposition, Rigoberto is making good progress in his Bible study.
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w93 8/15 p. 11 Why You Need to Attend Christian Meetings ***
Training
Provided by the Congregation
The Christian congregation is not a social club where people merely enjoy entertainment and perhaps encourage one another to live better lives. Jesus commissioned the congregation to take the good news of the Kingdom to those living in spiritual darkness. (Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 2:9) From the day it was founded, at Pentecost 33 C.E., it was an organization of preachers. (Acts 2:4) Have you had the experience of trying to tell someone about Jehovah?s purposes but failing to convince him? Congregation meetings provide personal training in the art of teaching. By studying Bible examples, we learn how to establish common ground from which to reason, how to use the Scriptures as a basis for logical argument, and how to help others to reason by using questions and illustrations. Such skills can help you experience the unspeakable joy of assisting another person to understand Bible truth.
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w91 11/1 p. 21 Part 1?Did Jesus and His Disciples Teach the Trinity Doctrine? ***
Examine
the Scriptures
At Acts chapter 17, verse 11, people are called "noble-minded" because they were "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so," things taught by the apostle Paul. They were encouraged to use the Scriptures to confirm the teachings even of an apostle. You should do the same.
Keep in mind that the Scriptures are "inspired of God" and are to be used for "setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) So the Bible is complete in doctrinal matters. If the Trinity doctrine is true, it should be there.
*** w84 10/15 pp. 16-17 Stand Firm Against Satan?s Devices! ***
6 The apostle begins by urging us: "Stand firm, therefore, with your loins girded about with truth." (Ephesians 6:14) The military girdle of ancient times was a leather belt worn around the waist or hips. Often it was studded with small plates of metal, providing added protection. It also served as a support for a warrior?s sword or dagger. What does it mean for a Christian to have his loins girded about with truth? To be girded about with the truth of God?s Word means having it very tight, so we are able to use the Scriptures to resolve questions. As the military girdle was a means of protection, so the truth will give us confidence to bear our burdens and will protect us. Surely, then, keeping our minds occupied with God?s truths will help us to stand firm against Satan.
*** w77 5/1 p. 280 "Make Disciples . . . Teaching Them" ***
16 In teaching, the Christian should want to reach the heart of the learner. If his heart is reached he will be moved to take action. Jesus Christ said: "Out of the heart?s abundance [the] mouth speaks." (Luke 6:45) Yes, when a person?s heart is reached with the good news, he will be stirred to tell others about it. But will he be able to show them what he has learned from God?s Word? He will be if he has been taught how to use the Scriptures. A fine opportunity to teach a Bible student to do this is when you are reviewing with him what he has learned. For example, you may ask him to show you from the Bible what it says about a certain point and have him explain it. Something similar may be done at the congregation book study, further helping interested ones and providing a fine example for all when they are conducting home Bible studies.
*** w77 11/1 pp. 644-645 Are You Prepared to Talk on the Bible? ***
Are You Prepared to Talk on the Bible?
"I BELIEVE the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man," said Abraham Lincoln, the sixteenth president of the United States. Although he never joined a church, Lincoln was a Bible reader from his youth. In fact, during his backwoods school days, the Bible was used for reading lessons. And, reportedly, Lincoln often had an old family Bible in hand during his days as president, in the years 1861-1865.
Abraham Lincoln was just one of many well-known persons who have considered the Bible to be of real value in life. But what about you? Do you really treat the Scriptures as a gift from God? Perhaps you are dedicated to Jehovah God and have the privilege of sharing with others "the glorious good news of the happy God." (1 Tim. 1:11) If so, can you use the Scriptures effectively? Are you prepared to talk on the Bible?
THE NEED TO SPEAK FROM THE BIBLE
Christians need to know the Bible well in order to fulfill their commission to "make disciples of people of all the nations, . . . teaching them to observe all the things" that Jesus Christ commanded. (Matt. 28:19, 20) Jesus himself was well acquainted with the Scriptures. He used them to beat back the temptations of Satan the Devil. (Matt. 4:1-11) Jesus also read God?s Word to others, as at the synagogue in Nazareth. (Luke 4:16-21) Often, while speaking to the people, he would say, "It is written," and then would quote the Hebrew Scriptures. (Luke 7:27; 19:46; John 2:17) What a fine example for his followers!
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Now, was Jesus casting pearls before SATAN? No. Your position on this issue is as ridiculous as your mysterious explanation of your presence here. I still have hope that you will start practicing what you preach and cease your Pharisaical displays.
Respectfully,
OldSoul
RescueMe

I would highly recommend continuing to breathe in the meantime.

I've learned over my many years to NEVER hold your breath when waiting for an answer to a question, as you would undoubtedly turn blue (and I've never wanted to be a smurf) and pass out before you got any answers to the questions. I enjoy learning. I very much love the idea of "learning something new every day".
How far in a self investigation of JW's should one go to get the actual facts, be properly informed and ascertain its real objectives.
My response to that would be: as far as you can go. Their should never be a limit on finding the truth. The search for truth, honesty and actual facts should never be limited. If you are looking for a healthy diet, do you stop at the first tidbit of information you find? or do you continue to search, in order to find all you can?
frenchbabyface

BTTT
seven006

Guys,
Elvis has left the building.
AFIN has moved on. She seems to be smart enough to recognize the fact she has been thoroughly spanked. She of course will never admit that to us, but her disappearance speaks for itself. Maybe she is possibly open minded and honest enough with herself to admit it to herself. That is more important then admitting it to us. I'm not holding my breath.
Dave
stevenyc

Here is another article you may find interesting.
I have included the entire part of article_03 and have given the appropriate link to the watchtower site. I wish to give credit where credit's due.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/6/22/article_03.htm
Do Not Be a Victim of Propaganda!
THERE is a difference?a big difference?between education and propaganda. Education shows you how to think. Propaganda tells you what to think. Good educators present all sides of an issue and encourage discussion. Propagandists relentlessly force you to hear their view and discourage discussion. Often their real motives are not apparent. They sift the facts, exploiting the useful ones and concealing the others. They also distort and twist facts, specializing in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target.
The propagandist makes sure that his message appears to be the right and moral one and that it gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure?so they say.
How can you protect yourself from the types of people that the Bible calls "profitless talkers" and "deceivers of the mind"? (Titus 1:10) Once you are familiar with some of their tricks, you are in a better position to evaluate any message or information that comes your way. Here are some ways to do this.
B e selective: A completely open mind could be likened to a pipe that lets just anything flow through it?even sewage. No one wants a mind contaminated with poison. Solomon, a king and educator in ancient times, warned: "Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps." (Proverbs 14:15) So we need to be selective. We need to scrutinize whatever is presented to us, deciding what to accept and what to reject.
However, we do not want to be so narrow that we refuse to consider facts that can improve our thinking. How can we find the right balance? By adopting a standard with which to measure new information. Here a Christian has a source of great wisdom. He has the Bible as a sure guide for his thinking. On the one hand, his mind is open, that is, receptive to new information. He properly weighs such new information against the Bible standard and fits what is true into his pattern of thinking. On the other hand, his mind sees the danger of information that is entirely inconsistent with his Bible-based values.
Use discernment: Discernment is "acuteness of judgment." It is "the power or faculty of the mind by which it distinguishes one thing from another." A person with discernment perceives subtleties of ideas or things and has good judgment.
Using discernment, we will be able to recognize those who are merely using "smooth talk and complimentary speech" in order to "seduce the hearts of guileless ones." (Romans 16:18) Discernment enables you to discard irrelevant information or misleading facts and distinguish the substance of a matter. But how can you discern when something is misleading?
Put information to the test: "Beloved ones," said John, a first-century Christian teacher, "do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions." (1 John 4:1) Some people today are like sponges; they soak up whatever they come across. It is all too easy to absorb whatever is around us.
But it is far better for each individual personally to choose what he will feed his mind. It is said that we are what we eat, and this can apply to food for both the body and the mind. No matter what you are reading or watching or listening to, test to see whether it has propagandistic overtones or is truthful.
Moreover, if we want to be fair-minded, we must be willing to subject our own opinions to continual testing as we take in new information. We must realize that they are, after all, opinions. Their trustworthiness depends on the validity of our facts, on the quality of our reasoning, and on the standards or values that we choose to apply.
Ask questions: As we have seen, there are many today who would like to 'delude us with persuasive arguments.' (Colossians 2:4) Therefore, when we are presented with persuasive arguments, we should ask questions.
First, examine whether there is bias. What is the motive for the message? If the message is rife with name-calling and loaded words, why is that? Loaded language aside, what are the merits of the message itself? Also, if possible, try to check the track record of those speaking. Are they known to speak the truth? If "authorities" are used, who or what are they? Why should you regard this person?or organization or publication?as having expert knowledge or trustworthy information on the subject in question? If you sense some appeal to emotions, ask yourself, 'When viewed dispassionately, what are the merits of the message?'
Do not just follow the crowd: If you realize that what everybody thinks is not necessarily correct, you can find the strength to think differently. While it may seem that all others think the same way, does this mean that you should? Popular opinion is not a reliable barometer of truth. Over the centuries all kinds of ideas have been popularly accepted, only to be proved wrong later. Yet, the inclination to go along with the crowd persists. The command given at Exodus 23:2 serves as a good principle: "You must not follo w after the crowd for evil ends."
True Knowledge Versus Propaganda

Previously, it was mentioned that the Bible is a sure guide for clear thinking. Jehovah's Witnesses unequivocally subscribe to Jesus' statement to God: "Your word is truth." (John 17:17) This is so because God, the Author of the Bible, is "the God of truth."?Psalm 31:5.
Yes, in this age of sophisticated propaganda, we can confidently look to Jehovah's Word as the source of truth. Ultimately this will protect us from those who want to 'exploit us with counterfeit words.'?2 Peter 2:3

a friend in need

True Knowledge Versus Propaganda

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