afin - a sister telling you that its ok to do this (and I cringe saying this) doesnt mean a damn thing. She is not in any way shape or form a part of the body of elders, the governing body, nor the "faithful and descrete slave".
Please note the following letter from the "governing body"
WATCH TOWER
BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF BRITAIN
THE RIDGEWAY LONDON NW7 1RN
TELEPHONE 020 8906 2211
June 1, 2001
ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
Dear Brothers:
In our letter To All Bodies of Elders dated January 1, 2001, we gave instructions relating to disfellowshipping and disassociation records, and files relating to child molestation. We thank you for all your hard work in complying with this necessary and important direction so that the government?s deadlines as incorporated in the Data Protection Act 1998 can be met.
Part of the direction given concerned creating a list entitled ?Child Protection-Psalm 127:3.? In connection with this List we have had a number of enquiries as to who should appear on it. Also, as you will appreciate, Caesar?s law does not stand still and this at times necessitates adjustments. We are pleased to provide clarification as to the use of the List and how records can be kept to enable our children to be properly protected in the congregation. - Isaiah 32:1, 2.
Those who have confessed to child molestation, or who have been found guilty of child molestation by the congregation on the basis of two or more credible witnesses, should appear on the Child Protection List. (For a definition of child molestation see paragraph 3 of our letter To All Bodies of Elders dated April 15, 1997.) Also, those who have been convicted by a court of crimes that constitute child abuse should be included on the List. If necessary, additional information may be kept in a sealed envelope in the congregation?s confidential file as described below. If such an individual moves to another congregation, the procedure found in paragraph 3 on page 2 of the April 15, 1997, letter should be followed.
There is one exception to the above direction: The elders may have written to the branch office and given full details about a former child abuser who is currently serving as an elder or ministerial servant. In such a case, if the branch office has decided that he can be appointed or continue serving in a position of trust because the sin occurred many years ago and because he has lived an exemplary life since then, his name should not appear on the List, nor is it necessary to pass on information about the brother?s past sin if he moves to another congregation unless contrary instructions have been given by the branch. If therefore, such an appointed man moves to another congregation a letter confirming the move should be sent, addressed to the Society?s Legal Department.
There are, however, many other situations that are connected with the abuse of a child. For example, there may be just one eyewitness, and the brother denies the allegation. (Deuteronomy 19:15; John 8:17) Or, he may be under active investigation by the secular authorities for alleged child abuse though the matter has not yet been established. Then again, a young child might be abused by someone who himself is a minor, perhaps in his pre- or early-
ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
June 1, 2001
Page 2
teens. In these and similar cases no entry will be made on the Child Protection List. Rather, information should be kept in a sealed envelope in the congregation?s confidential file as described below. When such individuals move, the Congregation Service Committee should write a letter addressed to the Society?s Legal Department seeking advice as to whether to communicate the details to the new congregation.
Keeping information relating to child abuse in a sealed envelope in the congregation?s confidential file: Only a brief note should be kept. This would show the name of the molester or alleged molester. If known, the following information should also be recorded: The name(s) of the victim(s) or alleged victim(s), the relationship of the offender to the victim(s), and how the matter was brought to the attention of the elders. The date the matter came to light, and the names of all the elders who were involved in some way or another would be noted. Facts such as when the alleged offence(s) took place, the period of time involved, and the ages of the alleged molester and victim(s) at the time of the incidents can be recorded. Make a simple statement of whether the allegation(s) amounted to uncleanness, loose conduct, or porneia as defined in Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, pages 92-4. Do not record details other than those mentioned in this paragraph. Alternatively, if a written allegation is made by the victim, then this should be kept in the confidential file and, depending on the contents of the letter, there may be no need for the elders to write anything further. The only information that should appear on the outside of the envelope is the person?s name, the date the matter came to light, and the names of the elders involved.
Elders do their utmost to fulfil the serious responsibility of protecting children from harm. The cleanness of Jehovah?s organization needs to be preserved while, at the same time, we conform to Caesar?s laws respecting the handling of sensitive information. As well as providing guidance for your existing records, the instructions in this letter will also apply to situations that arise in the future and that are connected with child molestation.
We send you our warm Christian greetings.
Your brothers,
Watch Tower B. & T. Society of Britain
[Official stamp appears here.]
PS to Presiding overseer: As soon as possible arrange to have this letter read out to the body of elders. Following this the Congregation Service Committee should meet to review the Child Protection List to make sure it complies with the direction found in this letter. If it is found necessary to remove a person?s name from the Child Protection List rather than attempting to obliterate the name, please make a new List, destroying the old one.
I would like for you to note a few things. First, of course is the fact that it states clear as day that the child requires 2 eye witnesses. So as Big Tex stated, 2 people have to sit there and watch this child be abused and do nothing about it... then be willing to say that they saw this and did nothing to stop it. Second, the fact that NOWHERE on this letter does it state that the Elders are to go with this information to the police.
Links with actual letters and certified stamps attached.
http://silentlambs.org/images/scan_wt_06012001_p1.jpg
http://silentlambs.org/images/scan_wt_06012001_p2.jpg
you might also do well to read some of the articles that are linked on this page. Most are from reputable news sources such as CNN, NBC, and local newspapers.
If the child abuse bit isnt enough... shall we chat on the WTBTS belonging to the UN which it considers the scarlet colored wild beast upon which Babylon the Great rides upon?
Kansas District Overbeer
a friend in need
by OldSoul 604 Replies latest members private
-
pr_capone
-
pr_capone
LOL, I forgot to include the link I thought you should visit. I'm on firefox here so my edit button is for shait.
http://silentlambs.org/education/Timelineofevents.cfm
Kansas District Overbeer -
Jud
Jud ... whether I have kids or not has no bearing on the issue. It's like asking a witness who is told by a doctor that they need blood. A Christian based belief takes priority.
AFIN, as you well know, I'm very new to all of this and only stumbled across this forum whilst researching JWs over the past couple of days. However, as a parent, I know that I'd at least be slightly curious (suspicious?) about all the info out there regarding WTBS and abuse. Surely it can't all be wrong? Aren't you even slightly concerned? Wouldn't the right (Christian?) thing to do, be to not stick your head in the sand and hope the issue goes away? To use one of your lines - what if? What if it's all true? And you turned a blind eye? I know how that would make me feel. Have you asked yourself that? I dunno. Just my humble opinion. Jud OS - sorry for slightly hijacking the thread!!
-
Sunspot
** Jud ... whether I have kids or not has no bearing on the issue. It's like asking a witness who is told by a doctor that they need blood. A Christian based belief takes priority.
AFIN,
And just which "Christian based belief" are you referring to? The "two-witness" nonsense? Of course all of us know that pedophiles perform their evil works of the dark with two onlookers, right? Now *there* is a perfect reason to turn a blind eye to their actions, isn't it.
The claim and your comfort in saying that your Watchtowergod will "take care of it whenever" just ISN'T much "comfort" to the suffering victims and their parents NOW, is it?
Annie
-
RebelliousSpirit
What was the response? "What material have you been looking up to come up with these questions, did you you take apostate material?" At that point I hadn't looked at anything except some of the early publications produced by the WTBS.
I left shortly after as the questions I asked were not answered and also because I was being accused of something I had yet to do!
That's funny BM, as I can relate. I noticed that any time one questions the teachings of the WTS, the immediate response is "having you been talking to apostates?" I had the same asked of me (when my only basis for questions came also from reading early WT publications and thinking "WTF?!") and took offense. My reply, "No. And I resent the implication that I can't think for myself". But I guess that's the programmed response from people who are taught not to question or think for themselves, eh?
Their own remarks about apostates is what led me here, ironically. I figured that if they couldn't answer my questions, surely someone could.
My husband knows I come to JWD, but even he has made a few apostate comments. I told him not to bother because in my mind "apostate" is just a word, a label at that, and I don't like labels thankyouverymuch. I also told him that for that matter the JWs had turned me into a Catholic Apostate, and I demanded to know why that was ok, but the other way around is not. Again with the hypocrisy!
-
AlmostAtheist
Wouldn't the right (Christian?) thing to do, be to not stick your head in the sand and hope the issue goes away?
Jud,
Having been a JW for 20 years, I can tell you that this would certainly not be the right (Christian) thing to do. The right thing to do is stick your head in the sand and try to convince yourself that you are misunderstanding the issue, you don't have all the facts, Jehovah will take care of it in his due time, something. Anything. Anything at all but actually ask yourself, "Could this really be happening in GOD'S organization?"
JW's are absolute masters of holding contradictory information in their heads and not questioning either side. "Electric Monks".
Dave
-
Big Tex
I have no reason not to believe you
Thanks. I appreciate that.
But what I quoted is the stance of the society.
So is what I said. The Society has not changed the 2 eyewitness rule, worse they do not mandate all elders report the abuse. They only tell elders to do so where required by law. And that's my point. Their stance is two-faced and in conflict. You can't have it both ways. Personally if I were an elder, I would realize I was not qualified to investigate such a matter and I would want trained professionals involved and let the chips fall where they may.
I would like to see the organization let the police and the courts determine guilt or innocence and if the brother is convicted then take action to protect the congregation. In the meantime, while that is happening, I would like to see the elders do everything they can to attend to the spiritual needs of the victim and their families. Sexual abuse creates tremendous spiritual questions and conflict. This is an area elders should be involved in, but rarely are. Telling an abuse victim to pray more and go out in service is not helpful.
Realize there are convicted child molestors who were convicted and served time and still remained in good standing. I have personal knowledge of one here in Dallas. My children attended a roller skating party where this pedophile was allowed to go. The elders had forbidden anyone from talking about him, or judicial action would have been taken. Thank God nothing happened to them, but it could have. Realize that scenario has played out hundreds of times in congregations across the country over the years.
I doubt very much that tens of thousands of children are being abused in the society
I understand your reticence. When I was a Witness, I too was stubbornly deaf to anyone who criticized the organization. I'm not trying to change your mind, just telling you what is reality. I do know of half a dozen people just in the north Dallas area who had been told exactly the same thing I was. They were forbidden to report the matter outside the police. I can tell many stories of others I've been in contact since I've been on this board, but again I don't want to beat you over the head with it.
You remind me of myself 20 years ago. I can tell you sincerely believe, and I can respect that. I think you're open minded enough to accept that the Society is not infallible and has hurt people along the way. At this point, I cannot ask more of you than that.
You said something to the effect that a God you love would not allow this to happen ... not your words. However; don't you think it's presumptuous of you to decide what is right in God's eyes?
Hhhmmm ... well I didn't exactly say that. I think you might be referring to this:
I also cannot imagine, in good conscience, believing Jehovah God demands an innocent 4 year old child must have two adults who stand by and watch while the child is brutalized. This is not only totally inconsistent with everything God is supposed to be about that to accept it puts to lie the expression "God is love".
I am very lucky. I'm an abuse survivor who found a way out, I got help and dealt with some pretty serious emotional shit. I've resolved many of the questions and feelings I was had. My personal feeling about God? I choose to believe God gave us a world and everything in it; that he allows each of us to choose. Some of those choices are hideous and cause tremendous pain. But to my way of thinking I lay the blame for my abuse at the feet of those who actually raped, not to God.
Yes there was a time when I was angry with him, but I choose to believe that this person is big enough, caring enough and interested in me that that level of anger was okay. When I reached that point, that God wasn't going to kill me just because I was angry with him, I found a sense of peace. Am I right? Is it all in my head? Don't know and I won't until God himself appears and tells me. But that's what faith is, isn't it? Believing without seeing? I dont' feel the need to be proven 'right'.
-
brutusmaximus
Nice to know I am not the only one rs.
It was the big green book we studied a few years back that looked at the history of WTBS that started me looking as some of the old boys thoughts were way out there.
I also find it interesting that the word apostate isn't even in the bible!
BM
-
a friend in need
cp_capone ... again thanks for posting that article. Actually, I think it all makes sense. I would be the first one in line to defend any child. Before you can send a person to jail (possibly for life) , if I were the accused, I'd want a LOT of evidence to convict me. No offence to any accuser, but there had better be proof positive before any allegation is taken seriously.
Even with that post, I see no reason for anyone not go to the police. Where does it say there that a person should not?
-
Big Tex
Chris, I do apologise ... I should have posted the whole article and there would be no problem now.
No problem. Nothing you say will hurt me. I'm not that fragile.
I only said what I did to give a personal slant to a very serious problem and one that the organization is refusing to address. That alone, in my mind, is contrary to everything Jesus taught. And if they are against Christ, of what value are they?
I should have read ahead before I posted anyway, so my post above should have been clearer.
Chris
