I can see in this thread if some might feel that being called a misfit or lowlife was offensive, but maybe that was just a bad choice of words, as I am sure it was not meant in that way.
LyinEyes you make a good piont. Thats how I feel.
FORMER JW ELDERS, on JWD, 2004 LIST
by jst2laws 181 Replies latest jw friends
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Stefanie
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Greenpalmtreestillmine
The word "Elder" leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Every congregation I ever attended had overbearing, controlling, incompetent, unChritian and at times even violent elders. So I can understand that even to hint that there is something beneficial to listing former elders is something that would bring up bad feelings. It would be like listing the names of reformed Gestapo on a Jewish board, nice but not a good idea.
I'm not saying all the elders were bad just that the elders did and do more harm than good.
Sabrina
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hillary_step
Xena,
Perhaps it would be a bit less offensive if those of use who weren't elders, bethelites and/or CO or DO's weren't labeled as exjw misfits & lowlifes.
I am sure that Just2Laws intentions were as ever, entirely honorable, as your own experience of his past posts will I am sure evidence. Perhaps the choice of wording may have been a little ambiguous and in need of slight editing.
Now, if the words lowfit mislife were used, it might be another matter....
Best regards - HS
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LyinEyes
Sabrina , I understand what you are saying,,,,,,,,,,gawd knows I have seen my share of evil elders.
But you know,,,,,,,,,the WT , is losing their best elders , and have lost the best elders. The WT, is losing the best of people, male and female everyday. The men who were elders, the ex elders on this site,,,,,,,were usually the ones who tried so hard to be just, good, kind, and were not so judgemental as to think they themselves could never sin.
I look back on my JW days and there was usually always at least one elder in the bunch who tired to be understanding and some of them hated to be on judicial committees, some never wanted to be judges of others. But as you know the way the organization worked, many of the men, were from a young age trained to become elders, and if you were not, they would hound you to death until you met their standards. You had to be a MS , then you HAD to reach out to be an elder, if you didnt they were on your case. That is what happened to my father in law. He never wanted to be an elder ,but they were pushing him to the point he was exhausted by it all. We all got out before he became an elder.
They pushed my son who was only 14 at the time, to be baptized, I said he wasnt ready and we didnt push him. But every single meeting someone was asking him, what his theocratic goals were. He was giving #4 talks, and the CO wanted him to give a number four talk at the circuit assembly. They were primeing him good for being a MS as soon as possible.
The JW's just push and push until they have the men under their control,,,,,if you are not in a position they will say there is something not right with you. I have heard it said many times, and it erked me then, even more so now.
The ex elders here are probably sick at heart at being pawns in the societies hands, to do their dirty work. Like I said before, the ex elders I believe , have alot of things going on within themselves because of things they did as JW elders and things they wish they could go back and do differntly. You just have to have compassion for what they are going thru , now that they have seen the light. I know my husband and another ex elder friend of his, talk for hours about cases they were on, and how much it still hurts them . They never show in anyway that they were proud to be elders,,,,,,,,,,mainly it is the opposite , they are ashamed to have been associated with it all and that they didnt see it sooner. They talk about wanting to kick themselves in the ass for staying so long.....lol.
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Sabine
I have to confess that when I first left I had the misconception that most ex-jw were misfits and lowlives...fornicators/smokers/drug users trying to justify leaving god's organization...I was totally indoctrinated folks, it took a huge tragedy for me to leave.
When I found this site, and realized Mulan and her husband lived closeby and that he had been an elder for over 25 years, I wanted to talk to him. Talking to a local former elder that could verify that most elders are on huge power trips, and that they make it hard to go to another hall by sending letters warning of your "bad attitude" was very helpful to me at the time. Also speaking to someone that left for purely doctrinal reasons really opened my eyes. Bigred gave me a stack of books to read that started me on the journey of realizing I didn't leave the "truth".
I don't put him on a pedestal because he was a former elder, but because of where I was mentally at the time, his being an elder made it easier for me to reach out to him. He and Mulan were very instrumental in my getting to the place I am today, at peace with leaving my lifelong belief system.
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Xena
HS,
I don't believe I imputed any wrong motives to anyone, did I? Wasn't my intent if that is how it came across.
Perhaps the choice of wording may have been a little ambiguous and in need of slight editing.
I agree, was it wrong of me to point that out? I feel the current choice of works might be hurtful to some and therefore perhaps either explained or changed to something a bit less...uuummmm derogatory?
I spent 30 some odd years being lorded over by elders, bethelites, COs & DOs so perhaps I (and others) are a bit sensitive....then again maybe most people just don't care to be called a misfit or lowlife.
Kindest regards back at ya!
Xena
Tal
Why not say,
"Yes, I see your point. We are sorry that this list is exclusionary. We still feel, though, that the GB or other lurkers will, in their infinite dubdom, understand that they are losing people that THEY consider some of their best. To that end, we feel the list is useful."
This would, imho, be much more productive and would acknowledge the real pain I am hearing.
What I hear is people asking for VALIDATION. Let's not forget that we are supposed to be supportive, not argumentative and punishing women for having an opinion that is contrary to the higher-ups.
EXACTLY!
PS You have a PM lol j/k...unless you feel you NEED a PM...then I am there for you girl!
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Englishman
The whole point Jst2laws is making is very simple.
If present JW's point to sites such as this and say "Oh well, it's just a bunch of malcontents who were always weak", we can point out that many posters here were at one time high up on the WT ladder.
BTW, I was never an elder, but having a reasonably broad mind will somehow manage to cope with that.
Tain't nothin' to be getting pissy about dear people, surely most of us here have got over our elder hang-ups by now?
Englishman.
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LittleToe
Without any intent to denigrate the obvious hurt of the women on the site, might I just add my own 2p.
Us guys were abused too. In many cases we were mentally emasculated, especially by the games played by those on power-trips.
Sure, some of us made Elder, and in the main I think you'll find that we aren't all that proud of that fact now.
However, if it makes a lurker THINK, then it's worth having such a list like this published.
I think the comments need considering from the perspective of a JW who has been conditioned to believe that all "apostates" are lowlife misfits.LT of the "lowlife misfit of the lowest order (AKA Former Elder)" class!!!
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hillary_step
Xena,
I spent 30 some odd years being lorded over by elders, bethelites, COs & DOs so perhaps I (and others) are a bit sensitive....then again maybe most people just don't care to be called a misfit or lowlife.
Well you have me there, I actually enjoy being viewed as such and actively encourage it. Painting targets on my forehead and backhead is what I live for...lol
HS
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Farkel
Big Tex nailed the purpose of this thread the best, IMO.
It doesn't matter WHAT kind of people ex-elders are or were. It doesn't even matter that they happen to belong to that replusive sex known as "men."
What matters is that dubs look up to elders, rightly or wrongly. When lurking dubs see there are a whole bunch of former "glorious" ones who are also opposing the actions of the WTS, it just MIGHT convince them there is something seriously wrong with their religion. I mean, face it: elders are little gods in WatchtowerWorld. "Why would a little god want to leave all the power, reverence, deference, respect and perks that comes with being an elder?", dubs might ask themselves.
Steve,
I didn't see "Maximus" on your list. He was a pioneer, Bethelite, CO and DO. Even though he doesn't post anymore, he made some incredible contributions to this site in the past.
Farkel