Spirit Channeling at Wallkill's Bethel

by Marie33 84 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Marie33

    Look what an ex-Bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at Wallkill:


    Now I believe Rayven's story of horror at Brooklyn Bethel:


    What else don't we know about what's really going on at Watchtower Headquarters??

  • Diogenesister

    I am fairly certain that given Fred Franz incredible, narcissistic and total belief that he was the one and only conduit between almighty God the creator of the universe and mankind, there is nothing, literally nothing that he got into his potty head that he would not do.

    Just listen to the guy's speeches. He makes Hitler sound calm.

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    11 What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. Why is that important?


    Wait a minute - "it seems that resurrected ones...may be involved in the communicating of divine truths"?

    So, you've got GB members receiving messages from the spirit realm, and "it seems" to be their best guess that it's really a message from "Booze" Rutherford or Freddy Franz? -- sir82

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Great read Coco. I often wondered when studying this how it happened. It had to be a whisper. Even at Gilead, all the GB insisted that their revelations come from studying the bible under the influence... (of holy spirit) and not because of a special communication. I find it interesting that the Revelation book frames it as a one sided transaction, as if they go down to Bethel every Wednesday and ruffle the drapes in the GB board room.....

    In our Gilead class, we (half) jokingly wondered if it was Russell who was one of the "elders" used to communicate to the GB, considering that none of his original teachings have been retained. One of my class joked that is nickname might be "1914", since that was the only thing that's still around..... -- AllTimeJeff

  • VW.org

    Interesting. Johannes Greber all over again. Sounds like watchtower never departed from the occult and just continued on from Russell's pyramidology.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Geesh, can this guy ever reach an end to a sentence? I couldn't take anymore and looked at the progress bar and it was only about a third of the way through. Can someone give us the Reader's Digest version?

  • Knowsnothing

    Cold Steel, here is the gist of it.

    The guy in the video, Marcus, said he lived in Wallkill Bethel. He's talking about an allegation that in the Brooklyn Bethel tunnels, some brothers and sisters were channeling spirits.

    In the Bethel family Watchtower study, he personally met a young man scribbling and drawing things in a notebook. Marcus, considering himself a spiritual man rebuked the scribbling fellow. The fellow gives him The following scripture:

    Jacob 28:10-19

    They meet up after, and the scribbling fellow invited him to his house. There Marcus meets scribbling fellow along with fellow's brother and sister-in-law. Fellow explains he's been channeling spirits for a while (using the text as justification). Also used Saul channeling through the witch of Endorsement as an excuse. Fellow also explains Russell did just that, he channeled spirits that told him to study the pyramid. He also goes on to say the Bible students that broke off still use Russell's Studies in the Scriptures. Marcus freaks out, fellow gives him 4 notebooks full of writings. Marcus says he's still got them but has never peered into them.

    It's a little bit hard having the patience to sit through it, but it was worth it. BTW, from personal experience, channeling is very real. Don't try it. You'll open a bad gateway. Go only to Christ.

  • OrphanCrow
    ColdSteel: Geesh, can this guy ever reach an end to a sentence? I couldn't take anymore and looked at the progress bar and it was only about a third of the way through. Can someone give us the Reader's Digest version?

    Eh. I quit watching someplace after halfway.

    This is one of the "apostates" whose message actually works against those who are serious about the work they do to try to expose the WT's harmful policies.

    I think this guy is an attention whore who makes up videos to get clicks. Here is an example. He has another youtube posted that is titled "Millions dead because of Watchtower's false blood doctrine". That is hyperbole over the top. Who does he think he is that he can throw that kind of garbage around when they are people (like Lee and his crew at ajwrb and others) who work tirelessly at dismantling the WT's blood doctrine and nobody, nobody anywhere has come up with such an overblown and over the top number of deaths attributed to the noblood doctrine. Nobody ever. Except this idiot.

    Condensed version? The star of this video claims that he was told that some of the "special" Bethelites go up and down Jacob's ladder to get messages, etc from the spirit world. (could be told in a 30 second spot...done and over. The end)

    This guy must have been a really 'good', spiritual, asshole JW during his time as one. Pulling hyperbolic claims out of where the sun don't shine and then sitting back and collecting his "clicks" smugly

    *edit to add -

    knowsnothing: Marcus freaks out, fellow gives him 4 notebooks full of writings. Marcus says he's still got them but has never peered into them.

    Oh. I missed that part.

    What a load of shit. Why make the video but not look into these alleged 4 notebooks? Produce them. Show us. I want to see them and I want to read them. I am not a chicken shit like Marcus. Where are those notebooks??

  • LisaRose

    Sounds like this guy just went from one conspiracy theory (The devil is out to get you, only the Watchtower can save you) to another (The demons are controlling the Watchtower). People can "channel spirits" all they want, it's nothing but channeling their own misguided thoughts back to them selves. People can delude themselves in a lot of ways, it's kind of amazing really.

    I once worked with a guy who had conversations with a "being from another dimension". It scared me at the time because I was a JW, I thought he was talking to a demon, now I know the guy was just batty, but also funny. He once sang me The Blue Bird of Happiness in its entirety. He used to call me Lumpy, so I asked him why, since I was a skinny young thing at the time. He said I was the kind of woman who gets lumpy when I'm older and he was right.

  • Dunedain

    Listen, I am NO JW backer, but I seriously DOUBT these allegations, from BOTH videos.

    I do believe that "behind the scenes" there are definitely shady things that have, and still are going on. Whether it be pedophile cover ups, shady business dealings, or Elders and higher ups, protecting their own.

    That being said, I seriously doubt there was "channeling" of spirits and flat out demonic activity.

    There are a few things from both videos that make me question whats been said. First off, I can PERSONALLY vouch that YES there indeed are many tunnels within the underground complexes of the Brooklyn Bethel buildings. They were very extensive, and were mostly used for transporting many items from pallets of food, to reams of paper, and so on. I have been in some of the tunnels, and some were huge enough to drive trucks thru, while others were smaller corridors and off shoots.

    That being said, I doubt there was this crazy demonic rituals going on in any of them. First off, while the woman, Rayven, in the second video DID sound very credible and intelligent, she contradicted herself a bit. She said, NO woman were ever involved in the rituals, but then later said that the one GB members WIFE was there, and in ritualistic garb too, as she was said to be in robes and holding beads.

    Next, the woman speaking seemed to MOSTLY focus on saying who was there. As if her purpose in telling the story was solely for the benefit of exposing Franz, and Henschel, and Schroeder, and all the other heavies at Bethel. If this story was true, why did she not mention ONCE what she wrote down, or what the demon said, what the purpose was, what the info was, NOTHING? She was naming every person she could think of, exposing their wrongdoing, yet she did not mention at all, what the Demons name was. Even the interviewer was vey biased, as he not once, asked ANYTHING specifically about the ritual, or more importantly what was being said, and channeled thru her. Seems like the "goal" of BOTH of them, was just to expose the Brooklyn boys for doing this bad thing.

    Now, the first video, with the black dude, was also, very suspect. He was long winded, and said a lot of words, but it was a bunch of BS. First off, why would these "brothers and sisters" who had this "knowledge", simply give their important channeled writings in notebooks, to this dude, that they only met briefly a few times. He said that they claimed to have the TRUE secrets, and are literally communicating with angels, and writing it down, and the average person could not even understand how "deep" it was, yet they hand these "deep" writings right to this dude, and say "have fun" reading it. Then, on top of it, this guy admits he NEVER even read the notebooks, and just thru them up in his closet and forgot about them. That also, makes NO sense.

    He said, that these brothers were allowed to do this at Bethel, and were encouraged to get this channeled info, and give the info to the GB, well then why were they doing it at a public Sunday meeting, and writing it a notebook, that THEY still kept. Wouldn't the GB have collected this "incredible, deep" angelic message, and stored it themselves? No, instead it was given to this dude in the video, after meeting them 2 times, and it was forgotten and never read, left in his closet.

    I say BULLSHIT.

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