Spirit Channeling at Wallkill's Bethel

by Marie33 84 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Knowsnothing

    deegee, great articles. Thanks for posting. I'm not sure what your point is though. The studies didn't prove or disprove anything.

    For example, let me write from the psychology today article:

    To put this another way, the low level of activity in the experienced mediums' frontal lobes should have resulted in vague, unfocused, obtuse garble. Instead, it resulted in more complex writing samples than they were able to produce while not entranced.

    Why? No one's sure.---

    Also a quote from the Atlantic article:

    To take his scans, Newburg uses functional magnetic resonance (fMRI), and single-photon emission computerized tomography (SPECT) imaging. The book Brainwashed: The Seductive Appeal of Mindless Neuroscience, lists their technological limitations. The authors, Drs. Sally Satel and Scott Lilienfeld, write that one limitation of brain imaging is that researchers can’t make a neat map of the brain centers for different activities like phrenologists once did. Even if most people process language expression in one particular area, this processing is highly dependent on connections to other brain activities. The brain is also plastic, so if the usual area for speech is damaged, other areas in the brain may reorganize and take over the function.---

    Heads up, you can be of sound mind and still believe in spirits. That was another take away from the psychology today article:

    The mediums ranged from 15 to 47 years of automatic writing experience, performing up to 18 psychographies per month. All were right-handed, in good mental health, and not currently using any psychiatric drugs. All reported that during the study they were able to reach their usual trance-like state during the psychography task and were in their regular state of consciousness during the control task.

  • deegee


    Did you carefully read the actual study itself:



    ALL of the authors' viewpoints and readers' comments in ALL of the articles which I posted?

  • deegee


    I would also like to suggest that you do some extensive research/reading about DISSOCIATIVE STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS - a university library would be a good resource for such research.

    Also of interest in this regard, is the work done by Felicitas Goodman which includes her books: "How About Demons"; "Trance, Healing, and Hallucination: Three Field Studies in Religious Experience" and more.

    Kind regards.

  • jp1692

    There would have to be demons for this to be true. There aren’t. It isn’t.

    People that believe in them are delusional. It’s a common and very ancient form of mental illness.

    End of story.

  • Knowsnothing

    Hi deegee, yes, I did. In fact, is also like to link this article which I believe as more detail of just what the actual experiment consisted of.


    The mediums with less experience had different brain activities than those mediums with more experience. That much I gathered. Also, there was a paradoxical effect because the mediums with more experience showed decreased brain activity in areas associated with higher level cognitive functions usually required for those writing tasks. It's possible the experienced mediums simply have more experience and are able to sit down these areas of their brain. I believe there is more to it than just experience.

    I'd like to know what conclusion you've arrived at.

  • Knowsnothing


    That's very dismissive of you. Did you even read the articles? The Brazilian mediums were of sound mental health.

    deegee, I will take a look at those books, thanks.

  • jp1692

    Yes. I know it’s dismissive of me. It’s all bullshit.

    I’ve spent over four decades researching this stuff looking at every bit of the supposed “evidence” for the supernatural that I could find.

    Here’s what I found: nothing.

    The evidence isn’t there.

    It doesn’t exist.

    There are no demons. It’s all bullshit.

    Anyone the believes in things that do not exist is—by definition—deluded.

    Delusional disorders are one form (of many) of mental illness.

  • deegee
    I'd like to know what conclusion you've arrived at ~ Knowsnothing

    I did some research on altered and dissociative states of consciousness because of what I personally experienced.

    I used to follow the WT's and an elder's advice to draw close to God through prayer and meditation. Unknown to me, my attempts to meditate and draw close to God resulted in self-induced trances/self-induced altered states of consciousness.

    While in this state, I used to feel as if I were on a higher plane, in direct communion with God. There was a feeling of union/oneness with God, a feeling of having accomplished a unitive fusion, merging, becoming one with God, being consumed in a pure union which felt satisfying.

    I felt so close to, connected with God in the very presence of God. I thought I was having the most direct and immediate experience of God, by becoming his living vessel. I would feel a state of exultation, inner peace and tranquillity.

    There was a sense of newly acquired knowledge (noesis) or understanding. I also experienced visions, auditory hallucinations. I became clairvoyant and psychic. I even experienced channelling/automatic writing/hypergraphia, a rapid and incessant flooding of my mind with thoughts and the compulsion to write them down (I could actually have become a spirit medium!)

    I used to think that God was speaking to me, guiding me, leading me, directing me, showing me things, putting thoughts in my mind but then realized that by following this supposed communication from God I was in fact making myself unstable and creating unwanted chaos in my life.

    Once I stopped deep prayer and meditation, this supposed communication from God stopped. I began to research what was happening to me only to discover that when I entered a deep meditative state thinking that I was drawing close to God, I was actually self-inducing a trance, an altered/dissociative state of consciousness.

    Entering an altered state of consciousness involves a transition from the left brain to the right brain whereby the rational left brain is suppressed and quieted and the perceptive faculties of the intuitive right brain are awakened.

    You then begin to descend to the unknown, inner world of your subconscious mind, to the deeper levels, inner recesses of your consciousness, releasing thoughts, impressions, visions, images, voices, words etc. from the deep intuitive levels of the right brain - your subconscious mind begins to "speak" to you.

    You begin to unlock a deep level of consciousness where psychic and extrasensory perception can be done.

    I then realized that deep meditative states sent my subconscious mind into overdrive and unleashed the voices, images, thoughts, words, impressions, visions etc buried there.

    This personal experience is how I know that God or demons or any other spirit being does not speak to persons or put thoughts into a person's mind.

    I also leant about the unconscious dynamics of the human mind:

    Information enters our brains minutely, hourly, daily at the conscious and unconscious levels. Some of the unconscious information never makes its way to the conscious mind for active processing but remains in our subconscious - hypnosis has proven to be an effective method in accessing/uncovering information buried in a person's subconscious.

    There is always background activity taking place in our brains when we are awake and asleep and there is also a constant interplay between the conscious and subconscious mind - some information from the unconscious mind makes its way to the conscious mind for active processing and vice versa - thoughts/issues/concerns from the conscious mind can get pushed out of consciousness into the unconscious mind.

    Our minds are never perfectly still. There is always subtle processing going on in which we can't consciously identify the thoughts in terms of clear words or clear images. There are rapid and fleeting associations taking place in the subconscious mind.

    Subtle processing or preconscious or subconscious processing gives rise to conscious self-talk and imaging, however, not all unconscious information makes its way to the conscious mind for active processing some remains in our subconscious and can be accessed/uncovered by methods like hypnosis.

    Thoughts, impressions, visions, images, voices, words, etc. can also be released from our subconscious when we engage in certain intense practices like intense/deep/strong prayer, meditation, fasting etc. which can alter a person's state of consciousness to the point where, the person descends to deeper levels of his/her consciousness, unleashing thoughts, impressions, visions, images, voices, words etc. from the deep mind.

    When a person is channeling/acting as a medium, they enter a self-induced trance, an altered state of consciousness prior to the commencement of their channelling/mediumship. This altered state is brought about by meditation, self-hypnosis etc.

    I believe that when brain scans of these persons show that one part of such person's brain shuts down and another part takes over, the scans are perhaps showing what I described above - the transition from thel eft brain to the right brain whereby the rational left brain is suppressed and quieted and the perceptive faculties of the intuitive right brain are awakened.

    My personal experience also showed me that one can meditate in order to supposedly draw close to God but you can also do the same thing as a channeller/spirit medium to "contact" the spirit world - you can meditate to the point of inducing a trance and alter your state of consciousness so that you can become a channel for discarnate spirits.

  • Crazyguy

    Even though this stuff is hard to believe like mentioned before they have stated that resurrected elders the 24 are to there to share stuff. Rutherford claimed that Russell was one of the angels in the book of Revelations sharing things to him for the book Finish Mystery. In a later book Rutherford wrote that the Holy Spirit didn’t work any more and he was directly contacted by angels.

    These stories sound over the top an unbelievably but a lot of crap said and done in the past would be unbelievable to anyone not familiar with the cult.

  • deegee


    Further to my point above about meditation being used either to supposedly draw close to God or as one of the ways to induce a trance-like state prior to channelling/spirit-mediumship:

    Meditation can also induce psychosis:








    - "Can meditation be bad for you"

    - "Meditation-induced psychosis"


    All of this has made me realize that for whatever purpose mediation is used - be it drawing close to God or creating the trance-like state for channelling/spirit mediumship - God or demons or other spirit beings do not communicate with or put thoughts in people's minds.

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