by PimoElder 134 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Scholar
Not wishing to try and get the last word, can I instead pose this question in all sincerity.
if the year 1914 is so important eschatologically, what do you think it heralded?
And what does that mean for christians?
That’s a “Dorothy Dixer” I guess. 🙂
Cheers,
Ozzie 🍷
ozziepost
if the year 1914 is so important eschatologically, what do you think it heralded?
And what does that mean for christians?
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You ask a very good question. The answer is simply that in terms of Eschatology a subject that many theologians and scholars write and talk about but with no meaning for our day, something that is abstract. The date 1914 makes eschatology relevant as it sees the fulfilment of the prophecies in Daniel, Revelation and the Synoptics.Its practical application for Christians is that Eschatology gives relevance and meaning to the Lord's admonition for Christians to 'Keep on the Watch' which JW's have set a sterling example..
scholar JW
What matters is not the beginning of the Great War.
WT had always taught that WWI started in Oct 1914 but now it doesn’t matter to you.
What ozzie brought up is that wwi started before the gentile times ended not after and he was also alluding to wt teaching that the war began in october corresponding with and evidence of the end of the Gentile Times according to wt teaching but now it doesn’t matter. It does mattter because that is wt taught. I think it is also interesting that wt has parsed gentile times, one aspect of it, the ousting of satan occuring circa 1914 or maybe the guess is that gentile times and the ousting of satan are 2 seperate events occuring years or months apart about the year 1914. However, 1914 is derived from the times algorithm and does not depend on any evidence or world wars to verify it. Old timers back then witnessed the sign of Christ presence aka composite sign so they were mentally convinced even though nothing happened in terms of Armageddon and here we are 108 years later. It is logical to conclude that since Jesus is king of the Messianic kingdom and since the purpose of the Messianic kingdom is to take action and make changes on earth, that it shouldn’t take so long for that to happen. Therefore, the author of this threat and others are saying what they are about 1914.
Scholar
i take your point although not adopting the JW interpretation.
The big difference must be on the JW teaching of “presence” (parousia) and “coming”. JWs teach that Christ is already present invisibly and the faithful have to accept this unprovable teaching, just as they must accept that an invisible Christ appointed eight men to control the JW organisation which they claim Christ controls. No evidence for any of that - it’s unprovable..
The teaching of Christ’s Return is part of mainstream christian beliefs and I know that in Anglican churches in Sydney public prayers include the desire to witness that and soon.
The churches teach the need to keep on the watch, preparedness, but all without the pressure to keep in servitude found in the JW world.
Cheers,
Ozzie 🍷
from the wrong date that Jerusalem was destroyed.
Based on the date of the fall of Babylon -70 years, the date is not wrong. 1914 is the year the Gentile Times ended. Proof is God’s kingdom has been ruling as JW see it.
the faithful have to accept this unprovable teaching,
Faith is based on empirical evidence. Such evidence doesn’t come from explanations or logical deductions or subjective evidence. Convincing evidence that JW have can come only from God not from reading a book.
Ozzi,
a witness in court testifies to what he sees and hears. No one is interested in what he believes.
ozzie[post
The big difference must be on the JW teaching of “presence” (parousia) and “coming”. JWs teach that Christ is already present invisibly and the faithful have to accept this unprovable teaching, just as they must accept that an invisible Christ appointed eight men to control the JW organisation which they claim Christ controls. No evidence for any of that - it’s unprovable.
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The Parousia is proved by fulfilment of the 'Sign' that Jesus gave in relation to His Parousia in the form of visible events certainly manifest by what happened aftewr1914 with the outbreak of the Great War- Spanish Flu, a worldwide pandemic, appearance of false prophets and Christs with His chosen ones exhorted to be busy in the Lord's work as illustrated parabolically keeping on the watch, not being fulfilled by Christendom or the Anglican Church of Australia..
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The teaching of Christ’s Return is part of mainstream christian beliefs and I know that in Anglican churches in Sydney public prayers include the desire to witness that and soon.
The churches teach the need to keep on the watch, preparedness,
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What utter nonsense. I was raised as an Anglican going to church with my mother until I was contacted by the Witnesses in 1958. My Godmother gave me a copy of the Anglican Prayer Book which sts out the teachings of the Church leading to confirmation and I was baptized twice as an Anglican. My knowledge of Anglican beliefs shows no interest in Eschatology and I remember Paul Barnet, a former Anglican Bishop at North Sydney wrote a small book on Revelation which did not set out any modern day fulfilment of the Revelation
The Nicene Creed which is upheld by Christendom does in its latter part makes reference to the following elements of Eschatology and ONE Holy Apostolic Church-
Resurrection of the Dead
Life of the World to Come- Blessedness and Condemnation
Life of the World to Come- Christs Return, the Judgement and Eternal Life.
One never hears any clergy speak about such matters but this is what Witnesses not only teach but preach publicly.
scholar JW
Fisherman
WT had always taught that WWI started in Oct 1914 but now it doesn’t matter to you.
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False, it is a matter of opinion of modern historians as to when the Great War began but that precise beginning is not essential for the Great War broke out in 1914 and in that same year in the October saw the end of the Gentile Times, Kingdom of God began to rule and the ousting of the Devil to the earth so 1914 is a biggie for earnest and sincere peop[e.
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What ozzie brought up is that wwi started before the gentile times ended not after and he was also alluding to wt teaching that the war began in october corresponding with and evidence of the end of the Gentile Times according to wt teaching but now it doesn’t matter. It does mattter because that is wt taught. I think it is also interesting that wt has parsed gentile times, one aspect of it, the ousting of satan occuring circa 1914 or maybe the guess is that gentile times and the ousting of satan are 2 seperate events occuring years or months apart about the year 1914. However, 1914 is derived from the times algorithm and does not depend on any evidence or world wars to verify it. Old timers back then witnessed the sign of Christ presence aka composite sign so they were mentally convinced even though nothing happened in terms of Armageddon and here we are 108 years later. It is logical to conclude that since Jesus is king of the Messianic kingdom and since the purpose of the Messianic kingdom is to take action and make changes on earth, that it shouldn’t take so long for that to happen. Therefore, the author of this threat and others are saying what they are about 1914.
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The Great War most certainly began a few months prior to October that year, 1914 with a pistol shot in Serbia and escalated over the months to a full-blown world war but in that year other significant events occurred from October which fulfilled Bible prophecy as outlined in Malachi, Daniel, Revelation and the Synoptic Gospels which with the Great War provided visible evidence that God's purpose was being realized on earth thus such an accumulation of evidence proves that WT theology on such matters is overwhelmingly convincing. The Great War nicely coincides with prophecy as proclaimed by the Bible Students some 40 years previously.
scholar JW
Fisherman
Based on the date of the fall of Babylon -70 years, the date is not wrong. 1914 is the year the Gentile Times ended. Proof is God’s kingdom has been ruling as JW see it.
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Well said!!!
scholar JW
