Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains 519 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • slimboyfat

    I don’t know if the letter from the GB helper is genuine, but it really strikes me as the sort of mealy mouthed answer a liar gives. He doesn’t flat out state that the alcohol was for gifts or that Morris paid for it out of his own funds but implies that both might be the case and invites the recipient to draw those conclusions. Sneaky, because if it later turns out not to be the case, after all he only “suggested the possibility” and let the recipient make up his own mind.

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    You mean, as in they "only suggested the possibility" of 1975 ushering in the millenium?

  • silentbuddha

    The problem is not him buying alchohol.

    The problem is the expense.

    My foolish parents like many others monthly do not save. They dont go on vacation.

    They dont take medication as scheduled. They skip a day so they stretch out their money.

    Every spare dine goes to jehovah. Meanwhile Tony is buying bulk bottles of midrange liquor.


  • lastmanstanding
    This thread should be examined by psychology students to show the glaring difference between those that use critical thinking when making a judgment and those that allow cognitive bias to creep into their judgment.

    Comment: Of course you elevate yourself as one who is using "critical thinking" and anyone who disagrees with you as "allow(ing) cognitive bias to creep into their judgment." Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.


    Here's a list of 10 scandals. You tell me if this "bottlegate" business is worse than any of the others (except the "rolex" incident).
    1. Crisis of Conscience
    2. ARC
    3. Pedo Database
    4. Abuse Settlements/Court Cases
    5. Blood Transfusion Victims
    6. Leah Remini Special on JWs
    7. Anti-Gay Kids video
    8. Bunker Video
    9. #bottlegate
    10. "Rolex" on Sam Herd on JW Broadcasting
    Comment: You place so much emphasis on the Rolex. Do you know that it is real? NO. Do you know that he didn't get it as a gift? NO. I never even paid any attention to the Rolex thing because it, sir, is a nothing event. It only came up because some TV preachers in the past wore them. So what. How many JWs left the org because of it? I don't think many. But the UN thing was HUGE, and still is as many JWs are still finding out about it and leaving. And you you don't even mention it. What kind of "activist" could you possibly be?
  • BourneIdentity


    That is precisely the point in this whole thing! There is nothing “wrong” with what Tony did and it’s causing this huge buzz and everyone is talking and analyzing it. We are simply all showing Tony what he’s done to all of us. He’s made it impossible to live our lives. I mean, my God, he criticizes women because they jog with spandex on saying it’s not what a Christian should be wearing when working out.

    Tony rarely leaves the Warwick compound and this came up. Imagine the rank and file members who live in this world 24/7, imagine how they have to navigate these scenarios around the clock “how will this look” and “what will people think”.

  • Vidiot
    MeanMrMustard - "What if he bought $800 worth of ice cream?"

    I almost wish he had.

    Would've been even funnier.


  • Incognigo Montoya
    Incognigo Montoya

    Jehalepeno and MeanMrMustard, you are correct in that it isn't a big scandal, merely "scandalous" or the appearance of a scandal, if that makes sense. It is in no way remotely close to the molestation cover up issues, blood issues, or even the UN issue. But in all those cases (with maybe the exception of the ARC) we dont have any direct link to one of the governing body, on camera, doing something out of the box surprising and questionable. Imagine if there was footage of AM going into the UN building...

    Anyway, I can definitely see it from yours, Simon's, dubstepped, and a few others perspective. I too dont care for frivolous bashing for the sake of bashing, as it is a disservice to real issues and makes the exjw community look bad. In this case however, I think it justified. As I pointed out in an earlier comment, two things stand out to me;

    1. How it looks

    How we are perceived by others, especially worldly people, is a paramount issue in the organization, and one Tony loves to prod the R&F with. We are all familiar with his veiws on tight fitting clothes (among other things), whether it be your theocratic attire, or just your casual wear, but if you're out in public, it's the perception it gives. Even sisters jogging in "spanx"(as he referred to it), spandex, are dressed inappropriate, in his view, and I'm sure if he happened upon a bro, wearing spandex bicycle shorts, he'd freak the ef out too. He rails on JWs to be constantly aware of the way they are perceived, and to always be beyond reproach, giving a good witness, no part of the world around them, lest they send the wrong message. Again, what message was he sending? What if later that day, or the next day, he called on the cashier or other patrons in that store, who witnessed his purchase, out in the field ministry? What if one of them were a bible study of someone, and saw him giving his fiery sermons on JW broadcasting, and they're thinking, "I just saw that guy buying a dozen bottles of booze, yesterday " (I think that would be hilarious actually, 😆). By his own moral code, he is in the wrong here. Hypocrisy.

    2. How the money was spent.

    When you encourage and admonish others, who revere you, to donate even their icecream money, to the organization you helm, yet you spend your own money, OR donated money (we dont know which it is, but it's one or the other, and where it came from is irrelevant to the actual issue) , on a frivolous, non necessity, like $800+ in booze, that is hypocritical.

    Who the liquor is for, whether he's a drunk or not, the day and time, the clothes he's wearing, the location, the car he's driving, all irrelevant and purely speculative at best.

    Is it scandalous, not really.

    Is it hypocritical, absolutely.

    Is it gonna end him? No way. The R&F who love him won't bat an eye, if they even find out about it. It could, however, push someone who has doubts, to become fed up, and break free. So I think this is a valuable piece of footage. It may be a puzzle piece that connects to later pieces, and forms a much bigger picture that we have yet to fully see. I suspect that Tony's future public council will be recorded and played alongside footage of his liquor store run, to our amusement, for years to come. At the very least, it's great comic relief. Funny because most of us ex JWs see the ironic hypocrisy, and all we can do is laugh.

  • MeanMrMustard

    @Incognigo Montoya:

    Thanks for the response. I want to address your points a bit later. It seems you are willing to discuss rationally, but I am at work at the moment.

  • BourneIdentity
    For those that don't understand what all the fuss is about, I'm going to give you a brief inside look at what the culture is like today in the JW Organization. Many of you have been out for years or even decades. The Organization is alot different today than what it was back then. Or maybe you will read it and say it was exactly the same back in the 70s and 80s, I'd like to hear your comments.

    Suppose I get a $500 bonus from my employer and I decide it's a great time to replenish my home bar. It's going to require me to buy an assortment of different bottles and I'm estimating it will come to possibly $200-$250. So I waltz into the liquor store, load up a shopping cart and head to the check out. A brother walks in just as I'm putting it all on the conveyor belt.

    My instant thought is "oh shit, this doesn't look good. I've done nothing wrong at all, but what does he think? I have to make this right before I leave."

    I finish paying for my booze and hang outside the entrance till this brother walks out. I have a little small talk with him and he kiddingly brings up that I'm buying the whole store out. I laugh and then say how I received my bonus and figured it would be a great time to use that surplus of money to replenish my bar. He agrees, what a great idea and said he is jealous and asks when he will get an invite over to enjoy a few drinks. We finish up, shake hands, say our goodbyes, and that is behind me, no issue at all.

    Fast forward a few days. I'm at a meeting and an elder pulls me aside and says he'd like to talk to me in the back room. I walk back there and 2 elders are sitting at the table with their Bibles and iPads out. They go on to tell me they've heard about my liquor purchase. I tell them the whole story and think it's ironic I have to explain myself to them, feels like I'm being interrogated by the Police. After they tell me they are not accusing me of over drinking, they share some scriptures about stumbling others and how we need to lovingly consider the friends. I'm just sitting there in shock listening to it all wondering how it came to this.

    I leave and then text the brother that saw me that day and ask if he went to the elders. He told me no. He then explains he was out in the field ministry and passed the liquor store and then brought up the funny story to the car group about me buying out the store. The group laughed about it, but then it spread like wildfire through the whole congregation, thus the elders heard about it and had to address it.

    Prior to the next meeting, I text both of the elders if I could have a word with them before the start of the meeting. We go in the back room and I ask if there shouldn't be a Local Needs talk on gossip, because the whole congregation needs to hear it. They proceed to tell me all of them are just so loving and care about me, that some were concerned. I asked if they were concerned, why didn't they follow the Bible and approach me with that loving concern? They can't answer that, but then ultimately say none of this would have happened if I would have had the foresight to think of my brothers and sisters before I bought all that booze.

    They made me realize I had dropped my guard that day, I failed to think "how will this look?" and "what will people think?" I didn't sin, but I did commit a sin in the JW Organization by failing to ask myself these questions. The fault isn't the congregations and their gossip, it's all my fault for doing something that could stumble others.

    I then feel awful and try to contemplate what I could have done to avoid this. It wasn't an option to just not get the booze, because I have a right to do that and it's not wrong. I asked them what they would have done. They tell me "you have a lot of co-workers that drink right? Couldn't you have just given them the money to get it all on their next alcohol run?" The 2nd elder says "You could have wore a baseball cap and put on one of those glasses that have the fake nose and mustache attached!" We all laugh about that, but I'm thinking that isn't a bad idea. Next time I just might have to wear a baseball cap, put on a fake mustache and maybe even put in contact lens that change the color of my eyes, that would hopefully be enough to get away with it and not be noticed.

    I kid you not, this is 100% exactly what the culture is like day in and day out when you are in the JW Organization. They say Jehovah is the most important thing, or the ministry, Kingdom, Bible, you could name many things, but the number one thing has always been and will always be appearances. People always say God sees all, he is watching, or what would Jesus do? But as a JW, the number one thing is "How does this look and what will people think?". And we have to assume people are always thinking the worst, always.

    Tony has played a very strong role in creating this culture over the years, so I find it funny how he's a victim of it!
  • Gorbatchov


    Nice to read your post, you're right. So it is.


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