UK justice..

by zeb 170 Replies latest social current

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  Ruby456

  Ruby, you can see there are mixed feelings on Tommy for many of us. He has succeeded in this— definitely provoked conversation and perhaps action for those who do not want to leave him to do all the talking and all the (bad?) acting

  yes thanks humbled. But I have been honing my antennae for the past few years and last night I spent a lot of time trying to figure out if child sexual exploitation was significantly a muslim/Islamic/Pakistani thing and if political correctness prevented it being investigated properly and the perps punished.

  the Metropolitan police say that child sexual exploitation isn't specific to an ethnic or religious group. What is specific is the age of the perps - late teens and early twenties and these perps practice exploitation across the board in all parts of the UK.

  It has been made political by the conservative gov - Theresa May to be specific when she was home secretary when she declared that political correctness hindered investigations.

  Secondly regarding those who have been left behind in the Northern England - well the labour party has been in disarray and the conservatives have been in power for nigh on eight years now. And as snugglebunny correctly observed the far right have stepped in with their own rhetoric pinning blame on an easy target.

  perpetrators of CSE need to be severely punished and courts should not be hindered in this.
• 

  zeb

  My concerns here were for the safety of TR in Prison.

  But I must comment on the PC business. When was any law passed that required the leukemic toxin of pc to be part of our social fabric?

  My concerns are still for the safety of TR. Please petition the UK PM for his release..
  
• 

  barry

  the Metropolitan police say that child sexual exploitation isn't specific to an ethnic or religious group. What is specific is the age of the perps - late teens and early twenties and these perps practice exploitation across the board in all parts of the UK.

  Ruby The Metropolitan police forgot to mention the perpetrators are overwhelmingly Pakistani Muslims just look at the names. The Pakistani muslims is a smaller ethnic group than even muslims in the UK but way over represented.
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  Ruby456

  barry that's one of many grooming gangs being brought to justice in the UK. We have gangs that have been providing MPs with youngsters (male and female) for sexual exploitation. We have gangs that provide young teens and young women from Eastern European countries and from Russia too. I don't think the UK is unique in this either.

  The grooming gang that Tommy Robinson is focused on is Pakistani muslim but the ones mentioned above aren't.

  The problem for JWs and xjws is the moral grandstanding and moral panics that we have become accustomed to preaching. The world we live in is a lot different than that.
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  resolute Bandicoot

  Ruby,

  It is no secret at all that Google is down the lefty, liberal progressive end of the spectrum, - water carriers for and enablers of islam.

  Just enter grooming gangs UK into a google image search and see what faces pop up, it is so profoundly a muslim issue that there is no hiding it.

  Meanwhile in my home town - https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/06/australia-muslim-gouges-out-wifes-eyes-and-slaughters-her-in-front-of-their-three-young-children
  
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  Simon

  Muslims raised under sharia law have a harder time than JWs just “walking away” from lslam. That’s the problem. Especially for women.

  Yes, that's the damning indictment of Muslims - those who want to leave face the risk of death.

  Edit: besides- some did just “walk away”— and now they are in the UK. and other western countries trying to be normal,

  The number is way smaller than it needs to be and far too many don't want to walk away but want to enslave and control more people. The number who hold hateful and vile views is growing - we're letting too many of the wrong people in.

  Moderate Muslims very much want to have western law and order.

  That's a meaningless claim. All people who want western law and order are by definition moderate. The problem is that far too few do, and far too many think death to jews and homosexuals is a good thing. The moderate muslim is a mythical creature.

  There is confusion and ignorance as to what Islam is and isn’t.

  No, there isn't, but the left definitely tries to inject confusion and mix up things like race into it. What Islam is and isn't is pretty clear - it's a high control cult designed to enslave people and promote a fascist political expansion.

  People need support to walk away from a high control religion. You of all people should know that. You created this board for JWs who were simply thinking, or thinking about leaving- or folks who had left but had no one who understood.

  Yes, so the very very last thing people need to enable them to walk away is for them to be attacked and labelled and for those who are critical of the regime to be attacked and labelled. It needs to be a safe opinion to hold and to voice to say that Islam is a shitty cult and too many people are trapped in it or take advantage of it to promote ideas that are incompatible with civilized society.
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  Simon

  The grooming gang that Tommy Robinson is focused on is Pakistani muslim but the ones mentioned above aren't.

  Good attempt at trying to diminish the problem, but when you have a small minority of a population responsible for +90% of the most heinous crimes and being given a pass because of their minority status then it points to a huge problem with them and a huge problem with the authorities that let that happen.

  You are attempting to do the typical thing - make out that any government that finally tackles this is somehow "racist" for doing it. People like YOU are part of the reason that crimes like this happen and continue unstopped for so long.

  You are more concerned about calling someone racist, who isn't, than calling someone a child raping piece of shit, who is. You need to go look in a mirror and think about how messed up your priorities are. No string of offensive syllables or racist slurs can possibly approach the real hurt and crimes committed by these people - stop trying to make out these things are the same.

  The world needed people like Tommy Robinson to speak out, stand up and take the flak and be labelled in order to get attention to the victims. I don't think he's racist but I really wouldn't care if he was because what matters, and the only things that matters, is stopping the crimes and prosecuting those responsible and in any way involved with it - that means all the people who enabled it, I want them in prison, I want them to lose everything and to suffer for what they did.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  the Metropolitan police say that child sexual exploitation isn't specific to an ethnic or religious group - this is correct, all ethnic and religious groups have child abusers.

  But that analysis on its own is superficial to the point of being meaningless.

  British-Pakistani Muslim men make up less than 2% of the UK population but are responsible for c. 90% of child abuse offences in multiple British towns. The vast majority of their victims are white girls.

  Of course I want all child abusers caught and punished regardless of ethnicity/religion but the above is what's happened.
  

  Our police, judges and politicians should be asking why a small minority is so overrepresented in child abuse crimes.

  Now take JWs. We know the WTS has a serious problem with child abuse. At the ARC, the authorities rightly looked into this.

  "Well, it's not just JWs, all religious groups have members who are child abusers - so why concentrate on JWs?" would have been an inadequate response.

  It has been made political by the conservative gov - Theresa May to be specific when she was home secretary when she declared that political correctness hindered investigations - but she has a point. Political correctness did hinder investigations.
  
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  humbled

  Zeb—l do hope the citizens of the U.K. have given attention to Tommy. These related conversations? Maybe think of them as the talk of relatives in the foyer waiting for news of a child in the operating theater of a hospital discussing the accident that sent the child to surgery. Some say the authorities are to blame some say the child was reckless —and they may all be right , all have a point.

  As an American l see vast problems mounting and cycling into growing storms. Elements of the present U.K. social conundrums playing out in in my State-my country. I sometimes resent that government doesn’t take better care of things.. but then l remember that l am supposed to be somewhat involved in that governance. that is when l see what a mess this is when there is not regular “housekeeping” of the accretions of a growing diverse population.

  Thanks, zeb, for letting us chat in the foyer while Tommy gets help.

  the Metropolitan police say that child sexual exploitation isn't specific to an ethnic or religious group. What is specific is the age of the perps - late teens and early twenties and these perps practice exploitation across the board in all parts of the UK.-Ruby

  I am glad you remind us of this. Certainly earlier in the thread I mentioned the groups of men in the US who used the internet page Backspace to prostitute girls. And l know as you do that there were others implicated— you mentioned procuring the kids for MPs. With the money involved l could see it too. They have been prosecuted at last. But that is a little part of it.

  It is not surprising that a backward Muslim subset of Pakistani background (where girl children have a very hard road) of the UK community known for misogynistic behavior toward women would have been involved in trafficking girls in the U.K. l posted on that.

  JaniceA earlier insisted that e remember how children, girls particularly are not protected from sexual abuse.

  Ruby, we all are subject , are sensitive to having facts spun to manipulate us. I have appreciated how invested you are in getting a larger understanding of matters. But for some the evidence of what we see on the ground, in our neighborhoods is compelling and we know it is part of the picture. We need that it be recognized as part of the problem.

  What is going on in the UK and Europe with floods of immigrants and the problem of radical Islam is considerable. The people to be careful of in this turmoil are people with an agenda—definitely there are far right agitators and there definitely are Muslim radicals. But there are also politicians and global businesses. And laziness and fear.

  How to craft laws and goodwill to Co-exist? We have to look closely at it all and listen to each other.

  Because...we are in some measure the government.

  And when government seems to have looked away from trouble a-brewing..,So Tommy Rises.
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  humbled

  Simon, thanks for your point by point reply. So far we agree. This may be uncomfortable to accept but the degrees of difference are negligible.

  The violent world of the twisted religious views is horrifying. The birth rates of immigrant Muslims is outpacing that of the “native” populations . Population pressure alone needs to be reckoned with!! And the multicultural model failed to see that it undermined assimilation. Yes, it makes the head spin. But we must try to sort it out. Or else we can let it heat up to a war where no body knows who to shoot at.

  l value Tommy ‘s work. His physical courage and mental toughness makes me admire him. But here is the question:

  what to do now? The masses behind Tommy need to know what to do more than be a twitter follower. Politics can begin in our own living rooms if we can avoid shouting each other down and alternatively learn to take a punch or to and go in for another round.

  I t beats hell out of going to war to my thinking.

  Political correctness didhinder investigations. —Luhe

  Prosecute the law breakers high and low, left and right, dark and light. No politics. And with small local forums of citizen have regular meetings. get local communities to talk about local needs. Invite politicians and or official to come. The networks of government must have that kind of capillary action to make any sense . It must happen Now. Tommy has taken this as far as one man can.

  edit: lf this thread were not so rich and relevant to my concerns in my-american-world then l would start a separate thread. We have the same complicated effect of government either overextended and/or corrupt in combination with citizen inaction and ignorance (where difficult problems are swept into prisons to fester and grow worse)

  In some measure l wish we could get Tommy to come over here.