It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened 2826 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Simon
    Simon

    The amazing thing in all this is how the "Overton window" has been shifted.

    I remember a time when, if someone took themselves off for a luxury vacation abroad and left their wife alone at home to look after two small children, people would think such a man was a complete shit.

    Never mind the prostitutes and cheating. He's a complete asshole simply for that. What a way to treat your wife?!

    Of course even that wasn't enough for Lloyd. He has to show the world what a complete failure of a man he truly is, and how selfish, entitled and arrogant he can be. It wasn't some "moment of weakness" ... he planned it in advance and cheated on her multiple times.

  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut
    As many on here have said, he is not doing the exjw community any favors (by the way I'm a jw). I can see how cult like many of the exjws are by their applauding comments, all in full sympathy (not on this forum) with him.

    Don't confuse empathy and decent behavior toward someone who is in a hellish (self inflicted) situation, as the condoning wrongdoing.

    I am neither a fan or a hater of L.E. and I in no way condone his personal bad behavior be it from years past or in more recent days. I have never met him nor have I met his wife or children or his in-laws and I have given him any money.

    I don't view L.E. as a figurehead in the "XJW" Community because for me, (other than the handful of XJW's I know personally) the "XJW Community" primarily exists in cyberspace and in most ways that's part of its beauty and the reason for its success.

    You can't officially join the XJW Community nor can you be officially kicked out of it or officially shunned by it. There is no leader, there is no higher authority, there are no doctrines, there is no dress code or approved list of topics or boundaries on what can be said so long as they comply with Youtube regulations.

    No one in the XJW community has control over ones personal life and cannot decree that ones friends or family must abandon them because they've fallen out of favor with the community. If there were any of these things in the XJW Community, it would be a cult.

    To me, L.E is simply a collector and bringer of information. An ordinary and flawed man who puts out some very informative YouTube videos and updates about a subject that I'm interested and about an organization I have been profoundly effected by.

    I am free to watch these videos or to ignore them completely. I can listen to them at length or fast forward through them at will if he bores me or I don't like what he's saying. If I project my own good intentions, my own hopes and fears onto the person presenting these videos...that's on me. If I make him out to be more than a presenter of information...that's on me as well. If I believe there is some sort of implied relationship or obligation on his part, thats on me as well.

    I know people who are profoundly disappointed when public figures fail, or when sports heroes turn out be less than heroic. Back when I was a JW, I had a JW friend who was a huge Elton John fan but somehow didn't know Elton is gay and was utterly disgusted when Elton "came out" publicly. My JW friend wanted nothing to do with this "sick pervert" so he got rid of all his music and his kids Lion King videos etc. Rather than give them away, he trashed them so no one else would be corrupted by this "sicko". He simply couldn't separate Elton's personal life, from the music he had been enjoying so much for years. He had some imaginary vision of who Elton was and had allowed him into his psyche and now he must be punished for failing to live up to the impossible standards he had projected onto him.

    Even though as a JW I could understand his logic, this still seemed irrational and over the top. I couldn't understand why he had expected so much and why he could have such an extreme emotional reaction over the personal life of someone he had never met. Was there more to this...was he hiding something he didn't like about himself ? Was this some kind of smoke screen? Was this an attempt to somehow appear to be morally superior or more virtuous?

    I'm feeling the same way lately in terms of the reaction from the "XJW Community" and the L.E. debacle. I fully understand why people would be shocked and saddened or even disappointed but the utter vitriol aimed toward him from people who were treated harshly themselves by their former "community", is quite puzzling. To me it borders on abuse and bullying and is engaging in the same behavior they're condemning L.E. of.

    Concern for the JW Community an the L.E. Family:

    If I am truly concerned for the JW Community I will behave with dignity and fairness regardless of what others do or say or what they may have done. This includes how I speak about the JW organization and it's members. I'll remember that there are those at this moment who are summoning up the courage to break away from the fear of the non JW world. I'm sure there have been many in recent days who've seen the hatred taking place and have been scared back into the imagined safety of the organization.

    If I am truly concerned for the L.E. family, I won't call their Father/Husband horrible names (no matter how deserving). I won't ridicule his appearance, belittle his lifes work, make unfounded claims about his activities and I won't speculate on or exaggerate the extent of his personal wrongdoing. I won't presume to know what the best action for Mrs. E to take in terms of the future of their marriage and the future of their little family. I'll remember that this isn't a T.V show or a movie...these are real people.

    As JW's we were led to believe that the world was watching us and everything we did was of universal importance. Everything was a test of our faith and loyalty. Jehovah himself was watching...Satan lay in waiting as Myriads of Angels looked on to see if we'd fall into his trap. Turns out no one was watching us and nothing we did mattered at all. What narcissists we were...it's laughable.

    These days we're XJWs...and some would say we are even less significant than we were before. In the big scheme of things this current debacle is less than nothing and whatever the outcome, our personal lives won't change much one way or the other.

    Not true for the L.E. family. How we behave and the words we choose here could make a difference in how things turn out for them. I'm guessing that most of us here want the best for these people and don't want to add fuel to the firestorm this must be for them right now.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Sorry, I think you're trying to sell it as a "victimless crime". It isn't.

    No, I don't give a flying fuck about Lloyd or how he feels, and I won't pretend to, because he never gives a damn about anyone else.

    But I am concerned about the people he'll have hurt, many of whom won't be able to express it for fear or shame.

    He has demonstrated that he doesn't need anyone's help to start a fire, he's capable of doing that all by himself. But we shouldn't stand silent while he torches other people's lives.

    He's leaving a trail of destruction and bad feeling in his wake with everything he touches. Another group of people with tarnished reputations from dealing with him who won't want anything to do with exJW-ism, another website burnt to the ground credibility-wise. He'll just shuffle on to his next scheme and his next victims to fleece and extract work from, thinking they are contributing to support some noble cause, to save people, to care for victims of abuse for fucks sake. He has NO BUSINESS ever talking to any victim or soliciting contact with anyone who's been a victim.

    If there was any such thing as an exJW community, we would need to do a much better job at weeding out bad actors. Instead, everyone claps like brain retarded seals because someone utters the magic words "I'm against the WatchTower, I am going to criticize the Governing Body".

    And yes, we can judge him, based on his own standards. He tried to make out some old guy buying some bottles of spirits from a liquor store was somehow misappropriating funds and the crime of the century. Zero proof, but it let him waffle on in another "sensational" video expose. The idiots line up to have their biases fed and he has no concern for truth or accuracy, but neither do they.

    Just slap the "exJW" sticker on it and put it on the shelf for the next punter to buy. The only thing he got right is that the IS something wrong with the exJW community - they are not critical enough, or concerned enough about who gets to operate in their midst.

  • RULES & REGULATIONS
    RULES & REGULATIONS
    To me, L.E is simply a collector and bringer of information. An ordinary and flawed man who puts out some very informative YouTube videos and updates about a subject that I'm interested and about an organization I have been profoundly effected by.

    Lloyd found a way to make a living making videos for the XJW community. Our lives won't change one way or the other from his videos or his personal life.

    Please watch Lloyd Evans call Anthony Morris...'' an arrogant, pigheaded, smallminded, homophobic asshole,'' because he went out and bought one thousand dollars of liquor. I think what Lloyd admitted to is what the XJW community is upset about. Don't sling mud at anyone while you get caught in compromising situations much worse than buying liquor!


    Bottlegate: Meeting a Governing Body member at the liquor store

    (Cedars' vlog no. 263) What happens when a group of religious leaders regularly bombards their followers with HD propaganda videos of themselves? Inevitably, one of them will eventually get caught by a member of the public in a compromising situation. Enjoy the spectacle of Tony Morris, a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, as you've never seen him before!

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    Some on this thread have strongly implied/suggested that he has had sex with minors, without any proof. I'm not a lawyer, but I've had a look at the defamation laws in the us and uk, aren't some of you a little concerned about making these accusations on a public forum?

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard
    .... I've had a look at the defamation laws in the us and uk, aren't some of you a little concerned about making these accusations on a public forum?

    No.

    It's possible he went there for hot fudge packing action with definitely-older-than-20-year-old gay Jewish black Thai dudes.

    Was that an accusation?

    Also, he's a public figure. Factual statements must be made with "actual malice", a standard nearly impossible to meet.

  • Simon
    Simon
    Some on this thread have strongly implied/suggested that he has had sex with minors, without any proof.

    I haven't seen that. I've seen people comment on his failure to deny that specific allegation in his video as being rather "odd", and from what I can gather it links to some previous rumour about some incident mentioned in his book (I don't know, I haven't read it and never would).

    Sex-tourism to Vietnam often evokes that connotation in people's minds. Surely that's the risk that people engaged in sex-tourism to Vietnam face? Most people, who value their reputation, don't engage in things that have strong links to such practices, not only because they value their reputation, but because it's sleazy and abhorrent and there is a lot of human trafficking that any normal decent person wouldn't want to be remotely involved with.

  • alecholmesthedetective
    alecholmesthedetective

    Don't confuse empathy and decent behavior toward someone who is in a hellish (self inflicted) situation, as the condoning wrongdoing...

    I second this motion.

  • Newly Enlightened
    Newly Enlightened

    It's amazing how so many are "Poor Lloyd". "His privacy should be respected" Poor Lloyd? What about his girls?

    they will NEVER have a normal life now

    He NEVER respected our privacy. We have so much evidence. He said in his stream the other day that he doesn't mention anyone by name.... LIE.

    Watch our video, then click on the link to the article in the description on JW Watch about us and then YOU decide.

    https://youtu.be/YPgccLq2_Dw

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    MeanMrMustard:

    joeyjojo

    '.... I've had a look at the defamation laws in the us and uk, aren't some of you a little concerned about making these accusations on a public forum?'

    meanmrmustard:

    'No.

    It's possible he went there for hot fudge packing action with definitely-older-than-20-year-old gay Jewish black Thai dudes.

    Was that an accusation?

    Also, he's a public figure. Factual statements must be made with "actual malice", a standard nearly impossible to meet.'

    MMM:

    No, because 2 consenting adults having sex isnt a crime- in most countries.

    From the web

    Defamation:

    'Defamation means causing serious harm to a person's reputation by publishing material about them that changes the way people feel about them. A person who claims to have been defamed can go to court to get compensation for the harm caused. ... Compensation could be money or a public apology.'

    With that in mind, here are a few statements from this thread.

    Reservations:

    'May I also add, as Lloyd skirted over these issues in his video:

    Prostitution is illegal in Croatia

    Prostitution is illegal in Thailand

    Prostitution funds organised crime, and the vast majority are not doing it by their free will. Organised crime that no doubt leads to the exploitation of children. Prostitution is abusive by nature.

    Money sent to Lloyd through his YouTube “activism” has been used for illegal activities, and potentially funding organised crime.

    Let that sink in.'

    seabreeze:

    'Thailand has the dubious distinction of being the world capitol of child sex tourism and child prostitution. These kids are kept in utter slavery through drugs and intimidation. It is a living hell for the most innocent among us - children. If this is his thing, then ANYONE ever watching his videos will be contributing to his VACATIONS and CRIMES against humanity.

    ...'In other words, why spend a fortune going to Thailand unless you are looking for a specific type of prostitute.'

    stephanelaliberte:

    'That argument works for small things such as being a heavy smoker, an alcoholic that curses and makes jokes in bad tastes, or even a porn addict! People tend to overcome those things with the rational you provided. But then, cheating your wife with prostitutes and going to Thailand which is known for child prostitution? '

    FFghost:

    'if WT monitors this site and/or reddit (which they almost certainly do, or pay someone to do), they will 110% use this incident to paint all "apostates" as child-raping deviants to their adherents.'

    Diogenesister

    'The fact he regularly goes to Thailand is the most egregious part. A place well known for its sex trafficking, especially if minors (he says girls in his response video and quickly corrects himself).'

    Please dont think Im defending Lloyd, because Im not. I dont know what he did or didnt do, because I wasnt there. Obviously there are people on this forum he has burned. As a neutral observer, the amount of judgment on this thread is breathtaking.

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