Great Tribulation and Trump

by TakeOffTheCrown 193 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  shepherdless

  Just felt the urge to jump in here.

  I have actually been to Egypt and entered one of the Giza Pyramids, and various other sites (Karnak, Edfu, etc). Been to the Step Pyramid (Pyramid of Djoser built about 2660 BC) as well. The Great Pyramid if Giza was built around 2560BC.

  I mention this, because some JW's seem to think that there could be some mistake about the dates of various reigns of pharaohs, or when things were built. If you have been there and looked around, you would realize that that is virtually impossible.

  There is writing in stone, everywhere. There is so much written historical narrative, and so much overlapping in that historical narrative, that sequencing events becomes unarguable. Also the ancient Egyptian numbers are easy to understand (a bit like Roman numerals) and as an agrarian society (and because of annual Nile flooding) they were clearly aware of when years start.

  As a result, there is a mostly continuous list of pharaohs going back to around 3100 BC.

  In 2370 BC, the supposed year of the flood, Pharaoh Unas of the Fifth Dynasty was on the throne for 5 years, and was to remain there for a further 25 years. His pyramid is not very famous (there are lots of them), is in bad condition, but is still there and was around 45 metres high. His successor (first of the 6th Dynasty) also had a pyramid, as did the rest of the Sixth Dynasty pharaohs (unless they had a short reign). There was continuous building work going on from before the date of the flood, to 2181 BC at least.

  Fisherman, you are a smart person, probably smarter than any member of the Governing Body. You shouldn't just be parroting the lines from Brooklyn.
• 

  Vidiot

  Fish, why do you keep coming here trying to convince everyone the WTS is right?

  Do you seriously think you'll have any success? After all this time?
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  at the end of time would not require talk of secret presence, but clear to all worldwide.
  

  Van, can you show this please. I am not interested in cut and paste. Simply explain in your own words with supporting scriptures.

  Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. :26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be.

  Jesus here tells his followers not to expect his(parousia) and divine deliverance during the siege. . Winter and Sabbath and suckling children would hinder escape from Jerusalem during these days of vengeance.

  So again Fisherman, how often do you pray that your flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath? What mountains around Judaea are you planning to run to. Do you bring an extra Jacket with you when you do roof work?
• 

  Fisherman

  Fisherman, you are a smart person, probably smarter than any member of the Governing Body. You shouldn't just be parroting the lines from Brooklyn.

  Shep, the WT only interprets and comments on the Bible; and the age of Noah's flood is not a wt interpretation of the Bible. As everyone knows, there are Biblical dates that also correspond with historical dates (such as the fall of Babylon for instance) and these are called pivotal dates, and are used by Bible students to go back and forward in time to establish Biblical dates, the date of Noah's flood for example.There is no mismatch between wt chronology and everybody else on the date of the flood; seems that everyone agrees that the Biblical date of the flood is the date being discussed between myself and other posters on this thread.

  To Christians, the historicity of Noah's flood was confirmed by Jesus himself, and thus, to Christians, it is written in stone, sort of speak, and only verifiable proof can challenge that. Jews also believe that God himself dictated the LAW to Moses and they won't be convinced by speculative science either. I was invited by a Rabbi to eat a bacon and cheese burger with him at Mcdonald's on Yom KIppur if I could produce solid proof that contradicts the BIble. I will PM you his number.

  Your post that I am responding to suggesting a date that contradicts the Biblical flood is not proof but only speculation.

  https://answersingenesis.org/archaeology/ancient-egypt/were-the-pyramids-built-before-the-flood/
  
• 

  Fisherman

  Fish, why do you keep coming here trying to convince everyone the WTS is right?

  Do you seriously think you'll have any success? After all this time?

  Vid, as I explained in a post on this thread, you don't win at chess by telling your opponent he will not have any success, and besides that, as I have shown to shep, the related discussion about 2370 is not about wt being right., it is about the historicity of the flood as accepted by everyone -not just the "GB"

  Also, I don't come here trying to convince anyone of anything. I post my views -take it or leave it, that is it. In relation to 2370, I presented a challenge to contradict the Bible with scientific verifiable proof. How is that "convincing everyone that WT is right" as you say. The wt admits that they are fallible in doctrine, so who am I to convince anyone that they are infallible when they themselves admit they are subject to error. But being subject to error don't mean that they are wrong either. They can also be correct whether you like them or not.
  
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  But being subject to error don't mean that they are wrong either

  So really they could just be a group of men who claim the obvious (fallibility) but demand their doctrines be accepted and taught as if infallible. For example, they could be wrong about being appointed by Jesus Christ in 1919 at headquarters in Brooklyn after a final temple inspection, but if one voices the possibility that this might be untrue, they would quickly see the back door of the kingdom... and left only to await eternal destruction at Armageddon.

  
  
  
• 

  Fisherman

  But being subject to error don't mean that they are wrong either

  So really they could just be a group of men who claim the obvious (fallibility)

  Van, wt fds credentials is another topic. The purpose of my statement that you have taken out of context was only directed at Vid in reply to his remark to me as addressed in the context of my post that you are parsing. All that I meant to say is that wt can be correct (at the very least sometimes) and they are not wrong on something only because they are wt and you don't like them. Play the chess game and shut up.

  I think highly of you and that is why I am responding to your interpretations of the GT. Let'ts stick with that. I want to focus on that and not waste time on remarks about wt from you.

  
  
• 

  schnell

  From Answers in Genesis:

  In brief, the secular date for the Great Pyramid is incorrect, and all the pyramids and ziggurats across the world today are post-Flood construction.
  

  So. Fish.

  How do you go from 8 people in 2370 BCE to the Great Pyramid of Giza?
• 

  Fisherman

  Schnell, ask the author of the essay you question. When you have verifiable proof, PM me.
• 

  schnell

  They're your premises, buddy. You're the one who has to reconcile the two.

  So how do you go from 8 people in 2370 BCE to the Great Pyramid of Giza?