Lloyd’s new book

by jwfacts 117 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AllTimeJeff

    One thing about the internet, it shows what you're about. If you want to troll and find fault, you can and will. We are all mostly anonymous so we can be brave without having to truly confront. I personally think it is a waste of time to judge motives on internet and social media sites.

    Healthy confrontation btw, is a lost art, and one I have struggled with, but improving in. Healthy confrontation is about setting expectations and boundaries. It's way too easy on the internet to question motives, which turns into unhealthy confrontation, mixed with a lot of toxicity. (I would suggest it is easier and more relevant to criticize actions...) And I think it's a waste of time to confront too much on motives. Want to debate political or religious positions, or activities and their relative value? That's fair game. But you don't know me and I don't know you...

    A book on how to leave JW's is, on the surface, of much more value then some in the ex-JW community who sensationalize things JW's don't really do (like "seeing" subliminal images in WT art, or holding ritualistic sexual meetings at Bethel...) There is so much low hanging fruit when factually attacking JW's because.... (drum roll....) THEY ARE A CULT! Blood doctrine, child molestation, that is real easy. Stick to the facts, and help those who want to leave to leave. That's a pretty worthwhile endeavor.

  • dubstepped
    For some people it's about the cause; for others the cause is a way to make it about them.

    Could it not be said that those that spend their time speaking against those that are actually doing something for the cause are making it about themselves? I like to turn things around and see how it plays from both angles.

  • steve2

    I appreciate your elaboration Las Malvinas. I have a better understanding of your views and you make some great points. I agree that if Lloyd had been perhaps more moderate in his earlier postings on this forum and shown a better ability to non-defensively and accurately "hear" what other posters were saying, he would have had wider appeal. I know I got offside with him - but as I explained on another thread - or was it this one? - I have made my peace with him. Besides, what is done is done.

    I do not consider myself that invested in defending Lloyd. I tend to respond when it appears as if comments about him have become unfair and/or personal or people are stating their perfectly legitimate views as if they are fact.

    I include an excerpt from your latest post below:

    "Whenever the Evans mishaps, current and past get discussed, there is a knee-jerk reaction to remind people of his videos and other work as if people aren’t already aware of it."

    I think you are correct, Las Malvinas. But the opposite is also correct: Those who have had run-ins with Lloyd or who do not like him seem to take every opportunity to react and let everyone know what a questionable character he is. Knee-jerk reactivity is not the sole preserve of those who speak well of Lloyd. I'm sure on that much we can agree.

  • jp1692
    Dubstepped: Could it not be said that those that spend their time speaking against those that are actually doing something for the cause are making it about themselves?

    You mean like you’re doing with a question like that? Yes absolutely, that could be said.

    I also like to turn things around and see how it plays from both angles.

  • snugglebunny

    Watched Paddington 2 last weekend. Is Phoenix Buchanan really Lloyd in disguise? There seem to be similarities..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUmkq0yBAqU

  • Ruby456

    Well put las Malvinas. I will never forget how he tried to intimidate and drive away from this site an individual who gave him access to an important watchtower that he was very glad to receive early. Steve you can call this knee jerk but this happens too often.

    He won,t allow others to work with him if he deems that they are not 100% behind him. As far as I'm concerned he has too many megalomaniac moods.

    edit. Wouldn't it be more productive to encourage him to find regular work (translation is notoriously hit and miss) so that he can finish building his own house, look forward to a decent pension and be independent. This would be a more compassionate and loving thing to do than feed his weaknesses.

    as to activism - the entire world is engaging in activism. That Lloyd focuses on religious tyranny and not tyranny of any kind will stand in his way of gaining as much attn as he could get and would also limit the prospects of those who avidly rely on him.

  • dubstepped

    Lol JP, no need to get upset there buddy. I'm not even sure what your turnaround of my turnaround means other than that it made you feel some type of way. "With a question like that"? Must have struck a nerve. Funny how it's easy to take shots at others by heaven forbid someone ask anything of the person taking shots.

    Good day JP. Sorry I thought it was valid to try to add to the perspective. It's funny how one man's ego (Lloyd's) touches off so many other egos. Suddenly everyone is defensive.

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    steve2 - I totally agree. Some have moved on after an incident or two with him; others continue to see a pattern and speak up.

    Ruby456 - As someone who has done translation/interpretation work before and is tri-lingual, it is disingenuous to call what he did as “translation” work. He has repeatedly stated in his articles and videos that he is not proficient in the Croatian language and only knows enough to get around. He is/was a proofreader of his wife’s translation work. Anyone with decent writing, grammar and punctuation skills (which would include many on this forum) would be perfectly capable of doing what Lloyd did. From what I understood of their website, he handled the business end of it as a “Director” whilst his wife was “Lead Translator” or something like that. This never made sense to me, since a great majority of their clients would be Croatian speaking people looking for docs to be translated into English. Granted, there will be some English speaking people who would need them into Croatian, but my point is as Director he wasn’t even able to communicate with many of their clients due to the language barrier and his wife undoubtedly had to step in.

    ExJW activism actually was a step up for him since by default he would speak in his native tongue, and not have to gauge someone’s level of English proficiency and have his wife step in and interpret. I understand how it is his job now and how he makes a living. However the contention that he could have run a successful translation business in Croatia doesn’t hold water. The success of that venture would depend almost entirely on the work of his wife, not him.

  • Ruby456

    Thanks las Malvinas. I think it is important to continue to speak up particularly when there seems to be a tendency to want to carry him aloft. In fact I would suggest that depending on other people,s charity for activism is fraught with difficulty - he has his own personal dependents and then he has to depend on delivering for his donors. I find it hard to understand how people could encourage him in this. Isn't it better to encourage independence and responsibility rather than earning from ventures that are likely to be disappointing in the long run?

    edit: I know people who work in translation and they usually also have other means of supplemental earning power like interpreting as you mention, teaching and private tuition.

  • OnTheWayOut
    Opening post: ...When it comes to financial gain, their is very little to be made out of the exJW community, so I find it disturbing that people keeping bringing this is as motivation.
    Thank you to Las Malvinas son Argentinas for answering to that. Whether someone can make money hand-over-fist in ex-JW activism has yet to be demonstrated, but I hope it is clear that Lloyd would like to make a go at what he is doing as a paying career.

    As this thread starts to disintegrate into personality issues, the primary posting purpose was to address Lloyd's motivation.

    Opening post: Support the efforts that you approve of, ignore the ones you don’t, but don’t second guess others motives or attack others, when most here are doing their best to move on and help where they can.

    There is the problem. Lloyd could not ignore the efforts he doesn't approve of. Lloyd was not motivated to "help where they can" but was willing to hurt others in attempts to salvage his own goals.

    I hope everyone is okay with people making money on their "activism." We just know that some people who have done much damage for personal gain can change or contribute worthwhile things later, but that doesn't mean they are off the hook. Plus, in this case, no change in motivation has ever been demonstrated. Perhaps Lloyd can apologize for not delivering an apology that many could accept, but I am confident it will still say he is blameless and the fault is with those holding a grudge.

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