Lloyd’s new book
The funny thing about Zeb is, his style of activism is totally not the way i would go about it. But i admire the hell out of him because it takes balls of steel to do what he does. Get up on a platform in a KH and say a prayer? Walk into a meeting and announce the Royal Commission findings? It's shocking, it's provocative and you just know the JWs who are there are shook up a little but will remember it.
So although i would never do what he does, I like him :)
Well said Paul. Thank you.
Paul...thank you for all you do. Thank you also Lloyd Evans. My spouse and I have learned a great deal from you both. We would not be where we are today without the both of you! Our family thanks you both for that!
Paul, (pardon me for taking the liberty to call you by your real name as we have never meet),
Your site and your efforts are phenomenal. I appreciated your logic and reasoning and the decidedly “non rabid foaming at the mouth apostate” nature of them. In fact, your site had a decidedly noncommercial feel as well. It made it very easy to take your words and consider them free from any perceived bias or desire to ‘wow’ readers and earn views, and therfore money.
Also add to that your interactions here on this site. As participant you've always been reasonable and above reproach. Even when you disagree your demeanor is ... sane.
Lloyd comes off at times as a carnival barker. His time on this board was erratic and marked by child like temper tantrums over every little thing. His whole philosophy of jw activism screams “LOOK AT ME!!! IM HERE AND IN IMPORTANT!!!!” Instead of you putting the message ahead of self, as you do, llyod seems fixated on being a “personality” unto himself. That is, for me at least, at the core of my issues with him.
Its easy to say we are all on the same team but when someone reinforces the negative stero types we are not in fact on the same team.
Lloyd is very talented and has a huge personality. The benefit is that he is interesting to watch and has gotten through to many people. With outspokenness comes friction, yet he is learning and refining his approach.
I can tell from experience that it is very tiring to run a site year in, year out. Not many other than Ray Franz, Randy Watters and Barbara Anderson have been able to keep it up for more than a decade. If Lloyd burns out, and he will if there is constant negative attacks, it will leave a huge hole.
I wish everyone could remember we all have a common goal and focus on that.
Morpheus sums it up for me really.
As I said on other threads I have my own opinions but do not let them color my approach to Lloyd's work...I can see past the people and actually concentrate on the content.
And that is what matters really.
The main problem is the frequent display of poor judgment. When Lloyd's group (as was then) outed people on Facebook, instead of apologising and trying to rectify the damage, he minimised the hurt and told people to stop complaining. When Crisis of Conscience was unavailable he printed his own copies to give as prizes on his channel. When preparing his new book he charged people to include their stories of leaving JWs at the end of the book. He apparently still doesn't see anything wrong with these decisions. This makes it problematic if he acts as a spokesperson because his judgements are often not sound. He was right to oppose the Russia ban, but frankly that should be an easy call to make, not a finely balanced decision.
Paul: I can't think of any online resource that can top JWfacts. You are the true aposta-king!
I too felt some sympathy for Zeb after watching the W5 episode, especially after he said that he hated storming Kingdom Halls, but knew no other way.
Of course, then I believe he is the one that went up to a cart of JWs and began reading a certain section from Lloyd's book that contained a confessional that many of his opponents love holding against him. I have a hard time squaring that with the guy I saw on W5.
Humans have a need for consistency so that our simple minds can label things and put them in the good box or the bad box. Nobody is all good or all bad. People also make changes. I was a judgmental douchebag as a JW. Once I saw that flaw I worked to change it, though I'm sure sometimes I can still be a jerk.
Lloyd is complicated just like you or I. I don't even like most of his stuff because he's too long winded even for me (and this may be my shortest post ever, lol) but he is doing good work.
On my podcast "shunned" almost every person I've spoken to so far was helped by his work. I guess I was too even though I found his JW Survey site too abrasive at first.
I can say in the little I've done on my podcast that immersing yourself in this stuff to try to help people it has taken a toll on me even though it gives back too. Again, few things are all good or all bad. But to do what he does Lloyd has to endure a lot if crap and maybe he has the personality to deal with it. Still, we don't help if we pile on.
Thanks Paul for JW facts. It helped me tremendously just two years ago. I'm trying to help by giving back in my own way. I wonder how many people criticizing Lloyd have given back near as much. I may not like everything that everyone does, but they're all doing something and that's more than most. If you don't like it, go do better.
1) Jwfacts was instrumental in helping me become sane. ( Well, more than before..😂 )
2) Lloyd has a style that I do not, but he explains things very well. He often articulates what I’m thinking and struggling to say. I just yell at Gerrit, “You lying F***!!”, which may not help open anyone’s eyes..
3) I don’t know all the details on the making of the book, or the alleged scandals. What I do know is that if anyone goes back and reads my old posts, there’s some crazy shit there. Especially my first username... I was struggling with severe anxiety, depression, thoughts of suicide, self-loathing, learned helplessness, confusion, neurotic behaviors, OCD and Jeehoober knows what else...
So we all have baggage, we are all victims of a f***ing cult! That shit f***s you up on a myriad of levels that take years to decipher, let alone deal with in a constructive manner. So Lloyd has screwed up? Fine... That doesn’t make him the enemy.
Haters gonna hate....