by WingCommander 324 Replies latest jw friends
all illegal weapons start out as legal.
most of the weapons used in crimes are not from across the border or from ISIS or wherever. They are firearms originally purchased legally.
So now it is "most" instead of "all", as you originally claimed.
Bill.
SecretSlaveClass,
I have two friends who have been regular visitors to that part of the world - one of them an ex British SAS commando, and thus extremely knowledgeable about firearms.
After one visit, they brought back with them a sample of the North West Frontier Province's gunsmithing. This was a neat little 0.25 calibre piece - very, very easy to conceal. (How they managed to get it through customs, though, I didn't want to know!)
The gunsmiths of Peshawar will turn out almost anything, not just AK47s. They have no difficulties with affixing an authentic looking brand name on it, either. With the illegally made British 0.303s that have turned up in Australia, you have to look very carefully to see that they are not the "real deal".
Bill.
Just my 2 cents.
Guns to me represent Americans freedom of choice.
I mean Americans should be able to do what the second Amendment says:-
".....the right of people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
If that right should be taken away, then surely Americans living in the 21st century should have the right to the vote:-is it time to take that amendment away?
On a separate note, an English friend of mine married to an American and living in the states for 15 years still does not have the right to vote.
The Rebel.
The Rebel has summed up the reason why this debate is going nowhere, brilliantly - equating gun ownership to democracy - only the US's radical brand of Lockean liberalism results in this type of thinking - it is the ideological element that takes it beyond rational debate. Simon - if I were you I would stop wasting your time trying to reason with the pro-gun writers. Their ideology prevents them from engaging in a rational discourse.
I read an interesting article in the LA Times on why the US is a global superpower in mass shootings. It put forward four factors that when taken together sets the US apart: 1. gun ownership - at 88.8 guns per 100 people the US has by far the highest (Yemen is second with around 50 per 100); 2. the way the American dream creates frustration and a sense of failure by creating personal expectations that many are incapable of achieving; 3. the cult of celebrity at any price; and 4. the poor quality of mental healthcare.
Simon:
I don't watch the news. They all have an agenda. As I said a lot of the firearms siezed are indeed stolen due to careless owners. I do not know what the ratio of illegal Mexican guns vs. stolen guns are and since I have never seen statistics I cannot comment. Gun laws are way too lax and in my opinion before you are to take a firearm home after purchase a local policeman would stop by your home and inspect it for safety (a pre-installed, anchor bolted safe should be part of that criteria), as they do in some countries like South Africa.There are laws against leaving firearms in your car but the penalty for doing so is a joke. If gun owners refuse to accept the huge responsibility that comes with firearm ownership, then stiff sentencing should help persuade them to be more responsible. And if you are found neglegent once, all weapons are confiscated, banned from owning firearms ever again and sent to prison. If your kid shoots himself/herself with your gun - culpabale homicide minimum.
Guns as a self defense weapon:
It is true that the average gun owner will not be able to use his sidearm if surprised by thugs carrying firearms or at close range. Even an experienced guy like me was surprised in a fire escape in Harlem by three thugs armed with pistols. Had I been armed it would have made no difference for my safety. I may have killed one or two but I most definitely would have been killed or wounded (more likely killed) in such a confined area, and my side arm would now have added to the thug arsenal, I have no doubt. It's why I also believe it's not a good idea for the average Joe to be able to carry a concealed firearm unless he has undergone extensive certification. There have been a number of instances where armed citizens have saved the day, but the cases are few. While I Was working in the private sector I only carried (even though I had a CCW permit) while I was working or deployed. Since I no longer work in that capacity I do not ever feel the need to carry a weapon again (unless somehow I'm thrust into a war zone). For me my best defense has always been situational awareness and trying to avoid getting into bad situations in the first place. However, at home the right firearm can be an excellent tool for defense. But don't only depend on the weapon, there are at least a dozen other precautions to take which you should rely on first. Using an assualt rifle for home defense (unless you're on a ranch or farm) is madness and I would not recommend hand guns either : most homes in the US have flimsy sheet rock walls offerimg no barrier for the neighbors should your bullets go stray, that is why a shotgun is a far better option - shot quickly loses energy after 15-20 yds, dependimg on the shot size.
in the end US gun laws are severely lacking, at least now in some states they are taking the lead with new legislation, like requiring a driver's liscence to purchase ammunition- which I am thrilled about.
By the way, in most states it is illegal to wear a ballistic vest unless you have authorization.
Bill:
Do you know their names? If you don't want to disclose that imfo I understand but ask them if they know "Toothless". In my old life I knew a few lads from Herefordshire.
leavingonthenextplane3 minutes agoI have an app on my phone called offerUp. You put in your zip code and it brings back people in your area selling random items. Sort of like craigslist but flashier and it is all local advertisements.
There are 5 people on the first two pages selling guns. 2 handguns 3 others selling rifles. This does not seem safe.
I completely agree. While it is a felony to sell a firearm to a felon, there is no way the seller could possibly know whether the buyer is a fellon or not. This HAS to change. Private sales should involve a police background check before a sale is allowed.
Secret Slave Class: I don't watch the news. They all have an agenda.
I know the feeling I agree they do all seem to have an agenda.
I am just the opposite in my consumption of the news. I listen to and watch some of the conservative news I also listen to and watch some of the more progressive news media sources. It's true they all have an agenda but I have a little fun trying to figure out what they are reporting and why.
The news media that is the most difficult for me to wrap my head around is the financial news media. If they report that its daylight out and your watch tells you its lunch time you still should check two or three other sources before eating. LOL
truthseeker1002 minutes agoI know the feeling I agree they do all seem to have an agenda.
I am just the opposite in my consumption of the news. I listen to and watch some of the conservative news I also listen to and watch some of the more progressive news media sources. It's true they all have an agenda but I have a little fun trying to figure what they are reporting and why.
There are a few great "news" apps which simply report events with no bias attached - they're merely facts about what is going on in the world around us. Then there is Live Leak which a source for great uncensored footage but I never read the comments.
The news media that is the most difficult for me to wrap my head around is the financial news media. If they report that its daylight out and your watch tells you its lunch time you still should check two or three other sources before eating. LOL
I agree. Years ago I tried to understand what all the jargon and that information which scrolls along the bottom of the scree which is complete gibberish to me. I have a hard enough time trying to understand what to some is simple for their intellect, no need to make myself dizzy trying to make sense of something I understand to be too overwhelming for my sub-par intellect.
Geezus! Is this thread still going? C'mon guys.....no need to argue the semantics of where all the world's legal or illegal firearms come from. It's been noted and documented that the shooter (original subject of this thread) obtained his GLOCK 19 legally. No denying it.
I actually think the more productive discussion was the one dealing with the semantics of what some of us consider "mentally ill", responsibly mental illness, how mental illness does or doesn't cause paranoid racism, and also the effects of the JW upbringing which this man clearly had and the effect it had on his psyche. (it did, no denying it.)
Enough about pros/cons of America and it's love of the ultimate phallic symbol: Donald Trump's toupee. lol
I am kind of surprised that after 13 years, THIS is the thread that has gotten me the most responses. Interesting.
WingCommander:
I would love to afford some input with regards to "mental illness", but since the only insight I have is my own PTSD treatment in the past, for me pretending that I had the slightest concept of psychiatry/psychology would be intellectually dishonest on my part. I only chose to jump in this discussion when I knew I could contribute with something I do know about. I do agree though, I think taking the gun topic beyond this point would be flogging a dead horse.
