VA shooting suspect was raised a JW! He mentions it on his Twitter account

by WingCommander 324 Replies latest jw friends

  • LoveUniHateExams

    I actually think the more productive discussion was the one dealing with the semantics of what some of us consider "mentally ill", responsibly mental illness, how mental illness does or doesn't cause paranoid racism, and also the effects of the JW upbringing

    I agree. As he apparently fled from his crimes and then turned the gun on himself when he felt trapped, he knew what he did was wrong - paranoid or not. His use of the phrase "white [deleted]!" and the fact that his victims were white strongly suggest he was racist to some degree.

  • cappytan

    Like guns, breakfast tacos are easily obtainable where I live...and they can be just as deadly.

    Every day, 2,200 people die from cardiovascular diseases—that's nearly 800,000 Americans each year, or 1 in every 3 deaths.


    (Confession: I made the comparison between tacos and guns because I wanted to share a picture of this wonderful Chorizo and Egg taco...)

    Guns will tear us apart, Chorizo and Egg will bring us together.

  • Billyblobber

    I actually think the more productive discussion was the one dealing with the semantics of what some of us consider "mentally ill", responsibly mental illness, how mental illness does or doesn't cause paranoid racism, and also the effects of the JW upbringing

    It's really hard to have a discussion about this because so many don't understand mental illness or have an inner need to assign blame on a person no matter what and can't even consider that people can do bad things due to bad luck out of their control because it destroys their worldview. People just want an easy "good people/bad people" worldview because nuance and reasons and other things are too hard for them. That's why progression on the mental aspects of crime go so painfully slow, as well, many people want the "easier" route of "someone does something bad, kill them/lock them away" as opposed to trying to figure out "why" so we can head these things off earlier, in the future.

    I have a TON of experience with schizophrenic and bipolar people, and this guy's rant reads EXACTLY like bipolar people I've seen. The subject jumping, extreme paranoia, and history of perceived persecution reads as textbook examples of it.

    It SEEMS like this was unchecked, which is why it led to what it did, and I wonder how much of this has to do with his witness family (possibly "abandoning" him because of his gayness, or not exploring mental help because they thought "Jehovah will fix this all in the Paradise?"). Bipolar and schizophrenic people often need close knit family to constantly "watch" them because they naturally refuse to take drugs (either tied into their paranoia or because it makes them "feel weird"), and if he was going through life solo with these issues, it's easy to see why it reached this unfortunate point.

  • TheOldHippie

    "How much of the "sick" was caused by the JW upbringing and environment?"

    Yeah. And let us not forget to check the background of ALL killers in the US and elsewhere, to find out how much sickness was caused by a Catholic/Protestant/Adventist/evangelical/WT/Buddhist/atheist etc. etc. upbringing.

  • WingCommander

    Ummm.....most "Catholic/Protestant/Adventist/evangelical/WT/Buddhist/atheist" aren't high-control CULTS.

    Jim Jones

    David Koresh (Branch Davidians, an offshoot of SDA's)

    Jeff Warrens

    Heaven's Gate


    FLDS (and yeah, LDS)


    Those are all high-control CULTS. So yeah, I'd say if you were raised in any of them chances are you are messed up mentally in some way, shape, or form. So therefore relevant.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    It was said earlier in this thread that Vester Flanagan thought he was in a race war.

    Let's go with that.

    Did he stock up on tinned food and ammo? Did he warn his loved ones? Did he buy camouflage clothing? Why did he limit his victims to just two of the 'enemy' - did he run out of ammo? And why did he turn his own gun on himself so easily?

    Something about that view just doesn't add up, IMO.

  • Billyblobber
    Have you ever met a bipolar or schizophrenic person?
  • Boeing Stratofortress
    Boeing Stratofortress

    Secret Slave Class...thanks for your comments. You said pretty-much what I was thinking, on each of your points. I was going to make a similarly stated post last night, but I was tired & hit the rack. Better you comment than me anyway, given your expertise is in weaponry/security/______ (forgive me if I left something out).

    I had previously mentioned the Air Marshalls who ride on our aircraft. In chatting with them, as well as other law enforcement professionals, and current/former military types, the subject of those wannabee 'Rambos' has come up. Yes, those fat, beer gutted, bubbas. The same ones who somehow think that the mere possesion of a MIL spec weapon (or at least the semi-auto version) SUDDENLY MAKES THEM MACHO.

    In the aviation world, I've run across the well-heeled business professional, who, despite being a newly liscened private pilot, with no advanced ratings, decides to buy they fastest turbo-charged, Beechcraft lawn-dart they can find. Along with that, they'll usually get the cool leather jacket, Ray Ban sunglasses, and a really big, but totally useless Breitling wrist-watch. They're just like the wannabee Rambos, who think that just by possessing a MIL-SPEC weapon, that they are somehow in the same league as the Rangers, Marines, SEALs, ect. Anyway, in the aviation world, we call 'em 'Wannabee Chuck-Yeagers,' and they're often the ones you hear about on the 6 o'clock news, after having smashed their shiney Beechcraft into the side of a hill, at night, in the fog.

    Some on these posts have cited Switzerland, as an example of a country with high rates of gun ownership. It's true, they do. In fact, it's part of their 'citizen soldier' ethos. In their version of a National Guard, many of them do possess MIL SPEC weapons at their homes/residences. But, they do receive training..not just a one time dog & pony show, but regular, regimented, and rigorous training on operation, maintenance, and SECURING of said weapon and ammo. Along with this training would likely come a large dose of national pride, warrior discipline and HUMILITY. I personally think this is a good model, though I doubt many in the NRA would go for that sort of regulation. And I'm quite sure that some of the fat, obnoxious, bubbas out there would not be able to pass such training in the first place.

    As for Krav Maga...excellent idea. I'm a bit old fashioned myself, as I like regular boxing. It's a style that allows the 'little guy' a chance. It can also be used in tight, crowded spaces, especially if you can get in some body-shots to the solar plexus of your opponent. Downside is, it doesn't teach grappling techniques.

    One last thought...I saw an image, a few months ago, of a guy in a Walmart or Target store. He had his AR-15 slung on, but it wasn't even slung properly. The strap went across his chest, and the weapon was just sorta hanging off his back, pointing at the dairy aisle. Also, he was leaned forward, using his free hands to purchase a pack of beef jerky, and totally oblivious to his surroundings. Anyone, with any modicum of martial arts training, or not, could've easily disarmed this hillbilly and shot him (or anyone else in the store) to pieces.

    With freedom comes responsibility. Or, to quote Honest Abe:

    In times like the present, men should utter nothing for which they would not willingly be responsible through time and eternity."
    — Abraham Lincoln
    December 1, 1862 Message to Congress

  • WingCommander

    Want to know what's really sad BoeingStratofortress, etc?

    I would have LOVED to have been in the military, especially the Navy or Air Force. At 6'-1" and 200 lbs, and @ 9% body fat, I'm in better shape than the 18 year old boys half my age entering. I actually still get recruiters at the Gold's I work out in asking if they could sign me up. However, I am unable to serve, and that's not because of my pacifist, f*cked up JW upbringing. No. My father was a Veteran of Vietnam. No. It's because I'm totally deaf in my left ear, have been since birth. Automatic disqualification. Doesn't matter how good a shape I'm in. This same congenital "defect" also disqualifies me from ever obtaining my pilot's license.

    I really resent the biased, slanted, automatic assumption that everyone on here that enjoys firearms is some Wal-Mart shopping, fat, beer gutted, bubba, wanna-be machoist Rambo. Or, some wanna-be Chuck Yeager in Ray-bans, leather jacket, and Breitling. I'll have you know that I DO wear Ray-Bans (mirrored blue polarized), that match my navy blue Alpha CWU-45P flight jacket, and OMEGA SpeedMaster watch. (Breitling is for posuers - I'll agree to that!!!!) I wear the Alpha CWU-45P, because it's large front pockets allows me to legally conceal-carry any of my pistols, none of which are MIL-SPEC, cause they are all set up for target/bullseye shooting and/or are just small carry pistols to begin with. (Ruger LCP, LCR, Glock 43)

    Don't know where half you guys live, but I gotta think you're judging alot of Americans based on Rambo films, John Travolta's Breitling ads, and the 24/7 glorification of violence that our news media keeps pumping out. It's really sad that you all feel that way about us. That's like me making the broad statement that all Brits have horrible teeth and are stuck up asshats, because I've seen photos of Freddie Mercury and caught episodes of "Are you being served?"

  • OrphanCrow
    WC: Those are all high-control CULTS. So yeah, I'd say if you were raised in any of them chances are you are messed up mentally in some way, shape, or form. So therefore relevant.

    I agree. The shooter's JW upbringing is relevant. It is not the only factor that led to his behavior but I do think that it is a contributing factor.

    JWs are indoctrinated into a "us verus them" mentality and are told that "worldy" people are not to be trusted. This man was raised, by the accounts that I have read, in a so-called devout JW family. He would have been exposed to that "us vs. them" mentality from the time he was a baby. This type of thinking cannot always be changed, and in this case, it obviously wasn't - the shooter revealed that he still had the residues of JW ideology when he spoke about "Jehovah".

    Regardless of his mental state, the JW ideas that had been planted in his brain about the world being an untrustworthy place would have had great bearing on how he coped with his problems, whatever those problems were.

    Some people can undo the persecution complex that the JWs are so good at giving to their members - some people can't.

    We will never know the nature of his mental illness or whether he had a diagnosable personality disorder such as being a psychopath, but the JW ideas that he was exposed to as a child growing up would have led to the "perfect storm" that unleashed itself in the form of violent behavior.

    The JW ideology is very good at disempowering people, and in this case, with deadly results. This fellow chose to empower himself by killing other people.

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