We shall NOT watch how we walk

by mikepence 109 Replies latest jw friends

  • LuckyLucy

    Mike, I feel this is soooo petty of you. Your forgetting what is really important here..Who are you really punishing..Bill or your children?? Think about it!

    BTW are you going to send back the portion of the money for the train trip to New York to all that donated??

    Hi my name is Rebecca.
    The sexaul abuse Ryan and I went through was horrible. The man who sexauly abused me and my brother Ryan were pretty close to us. He was all most the head of the congergation, it is heart breaking to know that he might still be sexauly abusing more babies, kids, teenagers -- evry age you could could think about. We are trying to get money togeather so we can fly up to press charges against him and to take a train to New York City to go to the march for me and other kids who went what I went through. Please... donate a little of money so my family can do this for me, my brother Ryan and many other children.

    Thank you
    Rebecca J. Pence

  • MegaDude

    Interesting, Mike. You make multiple posts about needing cash to join this march that would make a tele-evangelist blush, and then you cancel over clothing issues, and make NO mention of what you will do with the donations? Sheesh.

  • Hyghlandyr

    It is not clothing issues. Bill has said we can wear anything we want. Read above please to see what it is about. Mike and others do not want bill telling us we cant talk about other issues we have with the watchtower society.

  • mikepence

    All funds donated are fully refundable for 30 days. We still intend to go to the Northeast and press charges, and we have already begun our dialogue with the prosecutors up North, toward that goal. If any who have donated feel that they wish to rescind their donation, they are welcome to do so, with no hard feelings on our part.

    Let me respond to Bill's comments:

    Plan to be at Pierpopint Place and Columbia Heights at around on 1:30 PM on the 27thof Septtember, 2002.

    First of all, this it too late in the day on a Friday to be doing this in a business district of New York. It would be much more effective to do this earlier. This is just an aside, but this point was brought up by a friend who was a long-time Bethel resident.

    We will proceed in an orderly fashion to 25 Columbia Heights . This march is not about anger, it is not about other issues you may be upset about, it is about protecting children and supporting abuse survivors.

    My children, abuse survivors, hit the roof on this one. You don't tell survivors of abuse how to act! You don't tell them to be orderly, to keep up appearances. Control is what ABUSE is all about! This is 100% about anger, and to pretend that it is not betrays a lack of understanding of human psychology, and of the need of people who have been abused to express themselves in whatever way they need to. A therapist would never tell you to be orderly, or that it is not about anger. C'mon!! Psych 101, people! Recovery begins with the ability to express yourself without being controlled! Isn't that obvious? Who's agenda is this? Ask the survivors of abuse. They will tell you that they don't need to be told what to do. Ask my kids, if you want. I will give you my phone number.

    Confronting an abusive parent is messy, disorganized and sometimes ugly. What matters is that it be unfettered and honest. We are confronting our abusive "mother." To pretend that we even *could* control that is naive.

    I prefer that all banners and posters support this theme. We are united for one cause. Some have stated they wish to express other agendas at the march, I feel this is not appropriate. What if you were an active witness whose child had been molested, would it be fair to them to express views that may be offensive? To reach out to all and keep the focus we have to be neutral on doctrinal issues. Silentlambs is about support of ALL, not any certain side of doctrinal issues.

    Again, we are being controlled and told what is 'appropriate' and what may be 'offensive' or 'fair'. What is appropriate and fair is that survivors of abuse be allowed to express themselves in whatever way they need to. This is about them, right?

    Pretending to be doctrinally neutral when we are demonstrating against the group in front of the media is a farce. Our very presence there is an affront to all the JW's claim to be true. Let's be serious.

    hen we arrive at 25 Columbia Heights, we will first have a program in which abuse survivors will be asked to make a brief 60 second comment for whoever wants to speak. I will introduce different ones after the opening comments...We will then conclude with closing comments by those who wish to speak and I will conclude the program.

    Do you really think it is ok to even insinuate that you are going to limit someone who has suffered years of sexual assault to 60 seconds of time? Would they do that in group therapy? In front of a psychologist? A court? What is with the control thing, again?

    I could go on. Let me be clear:

    1. I like and support Bowen. I have done more with him than many of you will ever know.

    2. I believe that Bill, like all of us, has areas to grow in. I think he may still have a bit of elderitis and a lack of exposure to psychotherapy. He should listen to those of us who have had a lot of exposure to the mental health industry and to the needs of victims.

    3. My children made it clear to me that they would love to be in the march, but that they are not comfortable being in an environment where they feel as though they would be judged for expressing themselves however they feel they need to.

    4. Bill should know all of this. He could not have predicted how things were going to go when he disrupted the meeting when his disfellowshipping was to be announced. He peeled out in his truck as he left the Kingdom Hall. Jesus tipped the tables and made a rope of whips to clean out the temple, right? So, why is Bill asking of us what he and even Jesus rejected? All victims of abuse need to react in whatever way they feel they need to. Anger can be quite appropriate.

    (Perhaps because Bill has not confronted his own parents yet about the videotape they helped to make about him, he is not at the point yet in his own recovery where he sees the value of confrontation. I don't know, this is just speculation on my part. But it underscores that we all have our own journey to make, and we should not be controlling others based on where we are on our path.)

    Any situation where a crowd of abused people confronts their oppressor is going to be messy, and rightly so. Pretending it even *can* be controlled is foolish. Thinking that it *should* be controlled betrays a lack of understanding of how human beings work. There will be adrenaline, there will be tears. There will be every color of the emotional rainbow. Embrace it all. However things unfurl, messy or not, it will be perfect as it is, if it is the product of free expression.

    Do no harm to others should be the only mandate.

    The worst thing you can do to a victim of abuse is to tell them how to feel, how to act. Recovery is about freedom of thought and action, it is about not being silenced or controlled any more.

    I heartily support the path of all survivors of abuse. But, the silentlambs march, as outlined by Bill, I cannot endorse. I hope that Bill will not see this as a personal attack, but that is something that *I* cannot control. I did discuss this with him privately, and we agreed to disagree.

    No, we shall NOT 'watch how we walk.' NOR SHOULD WE.

    Mike Pence

  • Trauma_Hound

    Mike did you ever contact him about this? Actually Noon is a more affective time for a march, this is from a seasoned marcher, put whatever you want on your sign, I think your reading more into it then there is, he didn't say you had to, he said he prefered it.

  • Mum

    Mike, I didn't notice that you said you are not going to the march. I agree that you are overreacting. Are you "thinking" with feelings? What do you want to do that is so radical or disruptive? Disagreeing about the time frame is certainly a small matter. We all probably have different times we would like the march to be. Being orderly and keeping a lid on one's anger can only help the cause. As I said, I believe we all know what is appropriate.

  • Hyghlandyr


    Oh for goodness sake!

    Mike you werent at the vigil back in may were you? Part of this sixty second thing is because of the PRESS. Bill isnot trying to limit our expression you numbskull. He is however stating that we have a limited time in front of the press. This march is about highlighting to the press and the public and perhaps some JWs the goings on in Jehovahs witneses. If each of us gets up there and speaks like we are in friggin therapy the press is going to leave. I got up and spoke at the vigil. And I spoke at the press conference. I was not happy with myself afterwards. I said some of what had to be said. But it had to be said at another time. I rambled. The press was not interested believe me.

    Now when I spoke to the elders, I rambled and I dont care. That was the time to do it. I knew they were not going to hear me or change their opinion anyhow. They are still indicted by my words...This is NOT THERAPY go to a freaking doctor for that. And when bill says the march is not about anger he is not talking abut US not being angry about ABUSE. He means simply what he said, we will march ORDERLY. We will remain UNITED. We WONT be barking a bunch of things that do not have to do with child abuse. We WONT be holding banners about the UN fiasco, birthdays, false doctrine, missed prophecies, or any other agenda that some folks want to turn this into. It is about CHILD ABUSE ONLY! We will not be screaming, ranting, raving, shouting obscenities or any other behaviour. Bill knows my personality he has SEEN it as have some of you. And if you cannot handle me on the board you should see me in person. I would bring you to tears. Bill isnt trying to CONTROL me. NOR you. NOR anyone else. Get over it for christ sake. The purpose of the march is to highlight to the public and the press the inaction and harmful procedures of Jehovahs Witnesses in regards to CHILD RAPISTS! THAT is all.

    If you have other issues see a damned support group. Make your own march. And silent lambs IS about support of all. he doesnt just support people STILL Jw...he doesnt just support people who have LEFT..he doesnt just support people who have REMAINED christians, he doesnt just support people who are ATHEISTS or PAGANS or Buddhists or hindus, or Jews or Muslims. EVERYONE has equal standing. He supports the protection of children.

    The worst thing to tell a victim is how to feel? He did not do that. To tell a person how to act? DAMN STRAIGHT...You come to my house you act or you leave. If it is so freakin important for you to highlight the UN crap then do so on your own time. Whatever other issues you have with the watchtower, do it on your own time. Or join with others. It isnt like there arent hundreds of apsotafests and dawn bible student and other conventions around the USA that you can find support for those things.

    THIS IS OUR TIME...THEIR TIME..The abuse SURVIVORS and VICTIMS. PERIOD. What issue at the moment for THIS march is so freakin important to override that, that makes you have to leave ????

  • scumrat

    Yes, there is freedom of thought and freedom of action but along with that freedom comes responsibility. Bill might be trying to protect our asses from being arrested if we express too much of our anger with the freedom we have.

  • mikepence

    To reiterate:

    We are still pressing charges in Philadelphia, which has always been the main purpose of our trip. However, if you feel that you now wish to rescind your generous contribution, you may do so here: http://www.amazon.com/paypage/P2RANMTQODEI4E

    And, if you want to impugn my motives for collecting the money, or attack me personally for disagreeing with Bill, then, PLEASE take your money back.

    As I stated, "I did discuss this with him privately, and we agreed to disagree."

    Bill refuses to state that people can put whatever they want on their signs. He holds to the illusion that he can control this, and I think that trying to control this is harmful to the victims.

    Mike Pence

  • Nanoprobe

    I'm not sure what your saying, Mike. The law of the land (4th Amendment of the US Constitution.) gives us the right to engage in a peaceful demonstration. I didn't have in mind being a part of Molotov cocktail-throwing group of protesters. This trip is going to cost me a lot already, but do you suggest I have a lawyer on retainer too? Should we arrange bail just in case? I'd like to have some assurance that I can go and NOT BE ARRESTED.

    What exactly do you mean by expressing anger?

    Edited by - nanoprobe on 20 August 2002 15:45:13

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