What is truth? (page 2)

Theredeemer

Perhaps many ex JWs begin to celebrate Christmas because they realize that it is a harmless holiday. To call it the "deepest, darkest pit" is a little overboard.

In my opinion, you would get to choose from two possible belief systems-

That is a false dilemma fallacy

Why aren’t you attacking the Catholic or Muslim who has followed their religion since birth?

If you have really lurked here you would know that both Christianity and Islam have been discussed to great lengths.

You cannot sincerely leave the JWs and then go to Catholicism or one of the numerous Protestant religions.

Why not? Please explain

I do not know of any other religion that is really following in Jesus footsteps as close as the JWs.

Please give examples other than preaching (which we know others do and JWs preaching nothing close to what Jesus or even Paul preached).

But if a personal God does exist, a caring and loving God, then JWs do have ‘the truth’ regardless of all the false prophecies and issues they have with changing doctrine.

Prove it with specific examples and concrete evidence.

In my opinion, it is hypocritical for these ones to denigrate active JWs when these same ones were in the same boat only a few months or years ago.

Actually, most of the attacks are directed towards the GB. They are the ones that are dispensing the "truth". If anyone is hypocritical its them.

fastJehu

Welcome Heisenberg.

On this board are a lot of threads. Some are going very deep into the bible.

In 2 years on this board I learned more about the bible (and the WT-history) than in 30 years of kingdom hall (bible)book study.

You can decide and read the good ones.

LG beat me to what I was going to say about your claims that exJWs are hypocrites for criticising JWs. It's a pretty common sentiment around here that we're all ashamed of our behavior when we were believing JWs. If a drug addict cleans up his life and proceeds to insist that his friend do the same, is he a hypocrite or a good friend?

So much of what you've said reminds me of how I once thought - if there's a god, then the JWs must be the truth. Unfortunately, I came to that conclusion after being born into the cult (I'll get to that in a second) and never really caring enough to do thorough research into the true doctrines of the bible (and certainly never considered that the JW bible had been tampered with in order to better fit their doctrine) - but why would I? The JWs were kind enough to provide their doctrine all laid out for me, complete with cherry-picked and out-of-context scripture to legitimize it. There's no room for dissent in JWdom so why research if there's the possibility that the research may reveal a flaw in your belief system?

On the topic of it being a cult, you'll want to investigate your definition a bit. I think most here don't necessarily refer to any religion that has an authority structure as being a cult. While it could be thought of as something of a spectrum (in which all organized religion would have some degree of cultness to them) I think it's usually pretty clear when a religion crosses the line into being a cult. For a good start on a better definition of a cult, try reading the information at the link below. This model of a cult was written by a man who had no exposure to JWs (but was, for a time, in the moonie cult). He identified common traits that all cults feature. See if anything seems familiar to you:

https://freedomofmind.com//Info/BITE/bitemodel.php

I'll offer you the advice that I wish someone had given me when I was at your stage - take things with a grain of salt, and be wary of making ad-hominem attacks in your head. There's no one path that you'll be forced to take. If you find that someone is an atheist, it doesn't mean that their biblical refutation of the JW doctrine is invalid. If someone became a satanist (a bit of hyperbole, but you may run into one or two), it doesn't mean that they were never a genuine devoted JW that left for legitimate reasons.

Oubliette

Welcome Heisenberg!

if a personal God does exist, a caring and loving God, then JWs do have ‘the truth’ regardless of all the false prophecies and issues they have with changing doctrine.

Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.

One could just as easily say:

if a personal God does exist, a caring and loving God, then Catholics do have ‘the truth’ regardless of ...
if a personal God does exist, a caring and loving God, then Muslims do have ‘the truth’ regardless of ...
if a personal God does exist, a caring and loving God, then Mormons do have ‘the truth’ regardless of ...
etc, ad infinitum

That being said, you ask quite a lot of questions, none of them necessarily mutually exclusive, but you ask them as if they are.

Don't forget your uncertainty principle!

eyeuse2badub

What is truth?

The opposite of what the WTBTS teaches pretty much!

just saying!

eyeuse2badub

objectivetruth

Oh boy this is going to be a long thread.

LostGeneration

objective, I thought the same. Could be a well writted troll job. We shall see if he/she returns!

OneEyedJoe

Also, let me add: If you're up to the challenge, please head on over to the thread linked below. I think we're all very interested to see if an active JW can successfully defend the "truth" without resorting to rampant fallacy. Best of luck to you should you try it yourself.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/275576/1/Active-JWs-can-you-defend-THE-TRUTH

Oubliette

▪ Why have Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?

"Obviously, a basis for approved fellowship with Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot rest merely on a belief in God, in the Bible, in Jesus Christ, and so forth. The Roman Catholic pope, as well as the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury, professes such beliefs, yet their church memberships are exclusive of each other. Likewise, simply professing to have such beliefs would not authorize one to be known as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses." - Watchtower, April 1, 1986, Questions from Readers.

Notice that accepting the Bible is not enough, one must also accept those "beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses" no matter how often they change.

fastJehu

*** w86 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?
That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a “faithful and discreet slave” upon earth today ‘entrusted with all of Jesus’ earthly interests,’ which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47)

If you belief this today, you will be DF.

What is truth?

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