What is truth? (page 11)

Ucantnome

But JW have done no wrong in adjusting their beliefs in light of facts and clearer understanding. The Bible is written in the form of an ironic poem crossword puzzle and there is nothing bad or wrong in not understanding it all but trying to solve. If you have ever done a crozzword puzzle you know that you have to write with a pencil.

When I have done a crossword puzzle or some other puzzle it was a bit of fun my life didn't depend on getting it right. I viewed being a JW and what we were preaching as much more important than puzzles.

Fisherman

I viewed being a JW and what we were preaching as much more important than puzzles.-UC

UC, I see you always write in pen.

Ucantnome

I had faith

also as a witness i understood you had to be sure of what you were talking about. not guessing. if they didn't know what they were talking about they shouldn't have referred to themselves as a prophet like Ezekiel.

Fisherman

not guessing.

JW were never guessing although that is what you write. A crossword puzzle is not solved guessing words either and the Bible can also be described as, in its entirety, an ironic poem. JW never wrote that they were ever inspired prophets only bible students even in their role as FDS they only claim that their understanding of the Bible is progressive ever trusting in God's Holy spirit for light. And it is in that spirit that they always taught what they believed was true at the time co-existing with the human element in all of this that God allows to be, same as when the Apostles and early Christians taught circumcision for a while and did not allow eating of owl and pork for a while until they got light on those doctrines. Nonetheless, the inspired Christian Scriptures is written in ink but record that the early Christians were not right about what they believed was true at the time and did not have a correct understanding even about the time of the end and neither did Jesus tell them what "coming quickly" meant showing up 2000 years later invisibly. I would have thought that quickly means at the very most sometime in my life time. If you need exactly what the Bible means in its entirety in one shot to have faith, ok, or maybe you are looking for excuses. I do not know. I have concluded that JW is God's org and that they have God's Holy spirit, and that God uses them in the role of a prophet sort of speak in the sense that they are doing God's work on earth today but they are not inspired prophets in the sense that their communication to others is not free from any human error and neither is their understanding of the Bible in its entirety. I suppose that the deeds of the congregations admonished by Jesus in Revelation and their beliefs based on their understanding of the Bible at that time can be shown as grounds to disqualify them as the Church had REV not also included that Jesus was part of them. The truth of God's promises recorded in the Bible has not changed and JW have done no wrong in trying to understand it and teach it and they trust in God to guide them with His Holy Spirit and not as the churches of Christendom do who resort to political devices and intellect instead of totally relying in God regardless of the outcome. Isaiah 41:26

also as a witness i understood

I thought you wrote on another thread that your father was a witness but that you were never a witness? Is it true?

Ucantnome

Fisherman I used the word guessing because you made reference to doing a puzzle and using a pencil so that the answer could be erased which suggested that it was a guess and you were not sure.

Yes I was a Witness you misunderstood.

I'm not particularly interested in whether a person is claiming to be guided by Holy spirit or inspired

In the book Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom page 11/12 it says

'So a witness relates facts from direct personal knowledge, or he proclaims views or truths of which he is convinced'

When my parents became Witnesses they recieved and studied the Look booklet which I no longer have but found on the internet and I quote from.

Here http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/booklets/look.html

Your safety and the whole future of yourself and your family depend on now studying the Bible, associating with the New World society of Jehovah's witnesses, dedicating yourself to your Creator, Jehovah God, and witnessing for him. Do not let the pursuit of material things or the cares of life rob you of this wonderful opportunity of life.

and this quote from the Watchtower years later

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

For my parents to be Jehovah's Witnesses they needed to witness as the name suggests. They needed to be convinced they had the truth. This they received from the modern day Ezekiel class. ('Since Ezekiel himself was a "portent" or a "sign" (AV) of someone to come, and since he was not a type or prophetic figure of Jesus Christ , whom did the prophet Ezekiel typify in carrying out his divine commission?' Nations shall know that I am Jehovah pg 56/57) Their lives and the lives of their children depended on witnessing. And you mention pencilling in some ideas in a crossword.

Ucantnome

If you need exactly what the Bible means in its entirety in one shot to have faith, ok, or maybe you are looking for excuses.

I'm not talking about this. I'm talking about preaching the end will come in the twentieth century, within a generation,

saying that you are God's mouthpiece when these are said and tying them to the Good News and later finding it doesn't occur which damages faith.

In the Kingdom Ministry Oct 1974 back page under Presenting The Good News it talks about the "Eternal Purpose" book and how it can be used in the ministry. This book gave the date of the 7th creative day starting and half-way point, saying Armageddon would come before the last thousand years, the reign of Christ.

This was part of our witnessing, our lives depended preaching this. Is this what you refer to as something pencilled in. Subject to change if it doesn't quite happen.

Nothing to do with pencilling in crossword puzzles.

Yes I was a Witness

Ucantnome

People based big decisions in there life on these truths that were shared. Some people didn't have children, gave up education, moved somewhere cheaper to have a more active share in the work, didn't take pensions.

They told us that they were typified in the bible by Ezekiel. They were doing a work like he was. He was specific with the destruction of Jerusalem and vindicated as prophet when it occurred. In the same book they said

'Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern anti-type of Jerusalem, Christendom'

They weren't like Ezekiel. They weren't vindicated.

maybe you where one whose strong faith moved them to a more active share or maybe you were doing a crossword puzzle with your pencil.

punkofnice

If god existed, he/she/it/they'd give us a simple to understand book. Make everything obvious.

Then you have a definite choice. Not a babble of confused interpretations from dead languages.

The Bible is just a load of old gumph the Catholics bunged together and now people believe. Institutionalised delusion abounds. the Quran is rubbish too. Just like all so called holy books......man made nonsense. Full of symbols and stupidity that peopleclaim to understand. That's why there are so many factions in religions. Well done, god. All praise the lord of confusion.

Ucantnome

People had faith in these things as it was presented from God's mouthpiece as part of the Good News.

Watchtower June 1 1968 page 331

On the Joyful March to Mankind’s Millennium

Arguing against a literal future millennial fule by Christ, some have claimed that such a teaching would chill the missionary ardour of Christians to make disciples of all nations. (Matt. 28:19,20) But not so! Today no people are more zealous in carrying out this missionary commission than are the Christian witnesses of Jehovah, who believe that the 1,000-year reign of Christ is literal and future. In comparatively few years these have grown to more than a million. Today they are carrying out this commission in 197 lands and islands of the sea and that in 169 languages. Last year they devoted 184 million hours to this work!

And no wonder. What good news they have to tell the people! They proclaim the good news that the millennial rule of Christ will begin with this generation and that it will mean ever so many blessings for the people :..

Faith is the assured expectation

In the Insight book under Faith on page 803 it says that the word used that is translated assured expectation is common to business documents and conveys the idea of something that underlies visible conditions and guarantees a future possession.

Like the title deed to a property.

In the book "Man's Salvation Out Of World Distress At Hand" on page 29 it says.

"After all that we have gone through since 1914, our generation would be, of all generations the "most to be pitied".Think of it, though! Worthy ones of this generation of mankind will be saved alive out of the rest of this world distress so as to survive the worst of it and enter into God's Messianic new system of things and not need a resurrection from the dead to life on earth! This is a valid hope well founded on what was said by Jesus Christ..." (Evidently not)

“most to be pitied” taken from 1 Corinthians 15 when Paul is talking of the resurrection of Christ and our faith being in vain if this has not taken place.

To me it would be like taking what Paul said about the resurrection as pencilled in in a puzzle book if I were to take your view point.

talesin

I like what Don Henley said "In the Garden of Allah" :

"There is no truth

There are no facts

Only data we have manipulated"

It fits the WTS to a 'tee'.

What is truth?

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