Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG 387 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  DATA-DOG

  As of yet, no member of the Jehovah's Witness faith can defend their unique beliefs. When the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas. How serious is it that ALL Jws believe exactly what they are told, no matter how often it changes or flip-flops?? Just read on.

  ▪ Why have Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?

  "Obviously, a basis for approved fellowship with Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot rest merely on a belief in God, in the Bible, in Jesus Christ, and so forth. The Roman Catholic pope, as well as the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury, professes such beliefs, yet their church memberships are exclusive of each other. Likewise, simply professing to have such beliefs would not authorize one to be known as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses." WT 1986 4/1 Questions from Readers.

  It is interesting that they have separated "true teachings of the Bible" from " beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses." I guess there is a difference between the two? Notice just some of the "unique beliefs" listed in the same article.

  [ continued]

  What do such beliefs include?

  That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a “faithful and discreet slave” upon earth today ‘entrusted with all of Jesus’ earthly interests,’ which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ’s foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15–12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ’s Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present “great crowd” of Jesus’ “other sheep.”—John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4.

  We are now told that there is no FDS "class", just the FDS/GB. They have also not been appointed over any belongings at all. This "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the Bible." So this quote for the O.D book was never a "true teaching of the bible" either, yet you had to accept it.

  WHY TRUST THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE

  There are many reasons to have complete trust in the slave class. First and foremost, Jesus has appointed them

  over all his precious "belongings." This is a clear indication that he has complete trust in them.

  What if you didn't believe it? Notice this quote from a letter to the Elders from World Headquarters.

  WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC.

  117 ADAMS STREET, BOOKLYN, NEW YORK 11201, U.S.A. PHONE (212) 625-1240

  SCG:SSF September 1, 1980

  TO ALL CIRCUIT AND DISTRICT OVERSEERS

  PROTECTING THE FLOCK

  A major responsibility of an overseer as he 'shepherds the flock of God in his care" is to protect it from dangers. (Acts 20:28) Acts 20:29,30 indicates that one of those dangers can be men who apostatize. There is a fine study of this subject in the August 1, 1980, Watchtower. All of you want to get thoroughly familiar with the contents of the study articles. Encourage all of the elders and ministerial servants, especially, to do likewise. Include key points in your "Continue in the Things You Have Learned" program.

  Help the elders discern between one who is a trouble-making apostate and a Christian who becomes weak in faith and has doubts. (2 Peter 2; Jude 22, 23) The former one should be dealt with decisively after extended efforts put forth to readjust him. (2 John 7-10) On the other hand, one weak should be patiently and lovingly assisted to get the accurate knowledge solidify his faith.

  Page 2

  Keep in mind that to be disfellowshiped, an apostate does not have to be a promoter of apostate views. As mentioned in paragraph two, page 17 of the August 1, 1980, Watchtower, "The word 'apostasy' comes from a Greek term that means 'a standing away from,' 'a falling away, defection,' 'rebellion, abandonment. Therefore, if a baptized Christian abandons the teachings of Jehovah, as presented by the faithful and discreet slave, and persists in believing other doctrine despite Scriptural reproof, then he is apostatizing. Extended, kindly efforts should be put forth to readjust his thinking. However,if, after such extended efforts have been put forth to readjust his thinking, he continues to believe the apostate ideas and rejects what he has been provided through the 'slave class, then appropriate judicial action should be taken.

  So which member of the staff at World Headquarters apostasized first? Someone, in their heart of hearts, in their private thinking, doubted the "belongings" doctrine. They persisted in that apostate belief and now it is promoted as the "unique belief!" It just shows the ridiculous nature of religious authoritarians.

  The following is the "Criteria for Truth" presented at the "God's Word is Truth" DC. You may verify it by listening to the entire program and listening for these points. They are scattered through the program. They may be worded slightly differently depending on which DC recording you listen to. I attended two DC's back to back, and this is from my notes.

  CRITERIA FOR TRUTH

  1) God's word is the ultimate source of truth.

  2) Truth is the correct understanding of God's word.

  3) Jesus' words are truth.

  4) No "truth" can contradict another "truth." If there is a contradiction, only one can be true.

  5) Truth does not change. Truth remains truth. [ not so with men's ideas ]

  6) No probabilities or assumptions allowed. God's true prophets never prophesied in probabilities or assumptions. Exactly what they said came true.

  7) Truth is verifiable facts.

  I am listing these again to give any active JW an opportunity to prove ANY unique belief of Jehovah's Witnesses. Just stick to the criteria provided by your " Faithful Slave." Pick anything you want. 1914, FDS identity, paradise earth, no blood, Jesus=Michael, ect. This is open to everyone, of course. Just adhere strictly to the criteria, lest you apostasize from the FDS's teaching. Rememer, this is their criteria, not mine. If you ignore the criteria, you will be ignored after extended, kindly efforts have been made to re-adjust your thinking.

  Don't worry. If your "unique beliefs" are actually "true teachings of the Bible", it will be a breeze! After all, "no lie originates with the truth." I will check in from time to time. Bye-Bye!!!

  DD
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  BackseatDevil

  There is no "truth" to defend. Not even the bible is credible by it's own scholars.

  The only thing they argue is the organization. So... good luck with that.
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  DATA-DOG

  I hear you. That's not really the point. 1 year, or 5 years from now, a lurker could see this and hopefully reflect on it. Maybe they will wonder why no JW has succeeded? You never know what will get their brains firing. JWs failing to prove their beliefs with their own criteria is pretty significant IMO. When I learned that many "truths" were not true, it changed me for the better. Hey, you have to start somewhere..

  DD
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  Crazyguy

  I can prove much of their doctrine wrong just using a bible with out any contradiction. So yeah I'm with you, bring on anyone that is a JW's and thinks his religion is truth.
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  jonahstourguide

  I checked my notes DD you are on the money.

  No.

  1) Because at the convention you mention the audience was encouraged during the

  keynote address on friday 1140 hrs to "co-operate with adjustments". ( so are changes included?)

  Doesn't that take away the basis for truth before I commence?

  2) In the final address on sunday 1450 hrs the audience were warned to "resist doubt"

  "don't allow yourself to think as Eve did, ' is it really so?'"

  In my view It does come down to faith without certainty, bit like having a bet on the horses really.

  An non jw associate of mine put it this way: "you can argue over the form guide all day,

  but eventually you put your money on the horse you think will win, even favourites lose".

  He then asked how good our form guide was,,,, "1914, 1925, 1975, how many times do

  you keep backing a long shot? So what's your next bet on?" I replied " I'm backing 'overlapping

  generations' in the last mate, even long shots win" We both split our sides and had another beer

  and discussed cars instead!!!

  jtg
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  Hortenzie

  Which TRUTH do you have in mind? There had been so many changes over the short history of JWs that you need to specify your question!
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  Phizzy

  Jehovah's Witnesses cannot defend their unique beliefs from the Bible.

  If they were the "Truth" as they keep claiming in print and in conversation, as you rightly say, it should be a "breeze" so to do. It is also a necessity for them to do it, as why should anyone join them as opposed to one of the other over 2000 sects if they do not teach the truth ?

  Do not hold your breath waiting for a JW to wade in on this, they simply are too afraid to face the fray knowing they can only lose.

  What a barefaced cheek ! to knock on people's doors, ask them to change their beliefs, and yet they cannot defend the beliefs they are selling !
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  DATA-DOG

  "Which TRUTH do you have in mind? There had been so many changes over the short history of JWs that you need to specify your question!"

  LOL!! They can pick anyone they want. That's the beauty and irony of this criteria. The WTBTS really shot themselves in the foot. it makes you wonder if there are awakened dubs on the writing staff, or if they are just that obtuse.
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  punkofnice

  The GB are the voice of god……

  Nothing is interpreted but the interpretation comes from God and is then published.
  (WT 1943 July 1 pp. 202-203)

  Angels deliver what is published.
  (PREPARATION 1933 pp. 36-37, 64)

  THE WATCHTOWER publishes "no man's opinion".
  (WT 1931 November 1 p. 327; 1936 March 15 p. 85)

  "To it (this organization) alone...the Bible is not a sealed book." The WTS is "the only organization on earth that understands the 'deep things of God.' "
  (WT 1973 July 1 p. 402)

  The leaders are "spirit directed" (WT 1988 March 1 p. 10)

  and "God's channel."
  (WT 1969 January 15 p. 51; 1960 July 15 pp. 439, 442)

  "It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision."
  (WT 1957 June 15 p. 370)

  C. T. Russell founder of the WTS, called himself "God's mouthpiece" (WT 1906 July 15 p. 229); claimed that compared to reading his books Bible reading is "a waste of time" (WT 1910 September 15 p. 298)

  , and that his books "harmonize...every statement in the Bible."
  (DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES 1886 p. 348)

  God uses and directs the WTS.
  (VINDICATION Book 1 1931 p. 77)

  "The 'slave' class has served as God's sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time."
  (WT 1960 July 15 p. 439)

  "As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale. All of this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it." (WT 1964 June 15 p. 365)

  "Therefore, in submitting to Jehovah's theocratic organization, we must be in full and complete agreement with every feature of its apostolic procedure and requirements."
  (WT 1967 October 1 p. 593)

  "It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." (Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370)

  Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. Many persons of the world are very intelligent, capable of understanding complex matters. They can read the Holy Scriptures, but they cannot understand their deep meaning.""( Watchtower 1973 Jul 1 p.402)

  The point is that Christians have implicit trust in their heavenly Father; they do not question what he tells them through his written Word and organization." (Watchtower 1974 Jul 15 p.441)

  "We must serve Jehovah in truth, as revealed in his Word and made clear in the publications of "the faithful and discreet slave." Watchtower 1996 May 15 p.18

  w10 7/15 p.23 par.10 “The Spirit Searches Into... the Deep Things of God”

  When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of “the faithful and discreet slave” at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. (Matt. 24:45; 1 Cor. 2:13)

  p.17: "Listening to the slave class means giving our full cooperation to its Governing Body."

  p.27: "Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?" "The slave thus deserves our complete trust"

  p.28: "By all means, then, let us listen to the Christ and his trustworthy spirit-anointed brothers."

  ***w10 9/15 p.8 par.7 Earnestly Seek Jehovah’s Blessing ***

  We cannot hope to acquire a good relationship with Jehovah if we ignore those whom Jesus has appointed to care for his belongings. Without the assistance of “the faithful and discreet slave,” we would neither understand the full import of what we read in God’s Word nor know how to apply it.

  -- w10 9/15 p. 13 par. 8: "Similarly today, a Governing Body composed of spirit-anointed Christians contributes to the unity of the worldwide congregation. The Governing Body publishes spiritually encouraging literature in many languages. This spiritual food is based on God’s Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah.—Isa. 54:13."

  ***w10 9/15 p.23 par.8 “Your Leader Is One, the Christ” ***

  The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ.

  ***si p.9 par.16 (2011) “All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial” ***

  (1) Jehovah God originates his utterances; (2) then his official Word, or Spokesman—now known as Jesus Christ—often transmits the message; (3) God’s holy spirit, the active force that is used as the medium of communication, carries it earthward; (4) God’s prophet on earth receives the message; and (5) he then publishes it for the benefit of God’s people.

  -- w12 9/15 p. 22 par. 16 Learn From the Patience of Jehovah and Jesus

  Well, a person who lacks confidence that the end is near might start to make alternate arrangements, so to speak, in case things do not work out as Jehovah said they would.

  -- w12 9/15 p. 24 par. 4 "You Know Neither the Day Nor the Hour"

  As the end of this system draws ever closer, the work of pointing to Jehovah’s provisions for salvation has never been more important.

  -- w12 11/15 p. 17 par. 9 Cultivate the Spirit of a Lesser One

  A humble person has heartfelt gratitude for Jehovah’s provisions, including spiritual food. Hence, such an individual is a diligent student of the Bible and an avid reader of the Watchtower and Awake! magazines. Like many other faithful servants of Jehovah, he may make it a practice to read each new publication before putting it away on a bookshelf in his personal library. When we manifest humble appreciation by reading and studying our Bible-based publications, we make spiritual advancement, and Jehovah is able to use us more fully in his service.

  -- w13 4/15 p12 par 11 Do not tire out

  Jehovah has provided a bounteous supply of written spiritual food to give us strength. No doubt, you can think of a time when after reading a publication, you thought: ‘That is exactly what I needed! It is as if Jehovah had that written just for me!’ That is not a coincidence. Through these provisions, Jehovah does instruct and guide us.

  WT 15 Nov 2013 - "At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith."
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  DATA-DOG

  Thanks, Punk!!