What is truth?

by Heisenberg 114 Replies latest jw friends

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  Heisenberg

  Well, I have been lurking on this site for several months and I recently decided to join as a member. I have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.

  First, I am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) JWs. They seem to have a strong hatred for the WTS and also for rank and file JWs. In my opinion, it is hypocritical for these ones to denigrate active JWs when these same ones were in the same boat only a few months or years ago. Many JWs were born into the religion and that is all they know. Why would they do anything different? Why aren’t you attacking the Catholic or Muslim who has followed their religion since birth? All former JWs need to be more reasonable and understanding since they were once 'loyal' JWs and would have been similarly disparaged by atheists and apostates.

  There seems to be an uneasy alliance against the WTS. It is styled in the way of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' even though many on this site have differing beliefs. For example, those behind sites such as JWFacts are atheist. Yet, many who have been 'enlightened' by this site and then leave the JWs turn to other so called Christian religions. If you are an atheist, you shouldn’t treat the non-JW Christians any differently than you would treat the JWs. Why are you only exposing the so called lies that are taught by JWs but allowing people to promote other false teachings? Are the other lies just harmless?

  I am astounded when I hear of former JWs that now celebrate Christmas. Are you kidding me? You want the truth but then go back to the deepest, darkest pit of deception. We all know Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus. Why would you trade one set of lies for another?

  If ‘the truth about the truth’ has really woken you up, do you still believe in God? If yes, why do you?

  In my opinion, you would get to choose from two possible belief systems

  1. A personal god does not exist and that we got here by evolution or another theory that is yet to be discovered. I.e. you are an atheist and you don’t believe in the Bible

  Or

  2. A personal God (such as the God of the Israelites aka Jehovah) does exist and he cares about us. This means that the Bible, Koran or some other holy book out there must be the truth because we assume that a loving and caring God would provide such a book to help humans understand.

  I guess there is a third option…. God does exist but he doesn’t care about us and this is one big social experiment (In this scenario, you wouldn’t believe in the Bible).

  Note: Agnostics must eventually choose one of these options.

  If you agree with option 2, you have a dilemma. Why? Because if you have left the JW religion, you really don’t have many other religions or belief systems to embrace. You cannot sincerely leave the JWs and then go to Catholicism or one of the numerous Protestant religions. If JWs have so many things wrong, do you think these other religions have got anything right? I do not know of any other religion that is really following in Jesus footsteps as close as the JWs. Is there a religion anywhere in the world that has a global preaching work in play? How many so called Christian religions strive to maintain the high moral standards of the Bible? And do they also maintain a neutral stance when it comes to politics?

  Maybe you just ‘found’ Jesus? That's cool, but what does that even mean? In my opinion, if Jehovah’s Witnesses have it all wrong, then there is no God. But if a personal God does exist, a caring and loving God, then JWs do have ‘the truth’ regardless of all the false prophecies and issues they have with changing doctrine.

  By the way, for those who continue to say that "it is a cult"... it is getting very tedious. It's not a great argument to prove anything. Whether JWs are a cult or not is not the point here. A cult is defined as ‘a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object’. So considering this definition, ALL religions are a cult. Christians worship Jesus (or Mary)... Muslims revere Mohammed... Buddhists venerate Buddha. I don’t see anyone calling these religions a cult.

  Don’t believe everything you think. The brain is just as treacherous as the heart.
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Welcome to the forum Heisenberg!

  Jesus is The Truth. He is the gospel; He is the believer's salvation. Religion produced by anyone including the WT cannot save. To know Him is eternal life. He who hs the Son has life and a right to the tree of life. Everything else amounts to the question the woman at the well posed to our Lord.
• 

  Heaven

  What is truth?

  Nine women cannot have a baby in 1 month.
• 

  cantleave

  Thank you for your opinions - bear in mind that opinions on this forum are two a penny and most of us don't give a shite about yours.
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  Witness My Fury

  Welcome, Why have you been lurking? What brought you here? Note: your opinions are liable to change in the face of evidence, if they are not then you are a fool. So whatever your opinion is now, you could come back in a year or so and read this thread and marvel at how little you knew. Well you will if you are at all honest with yourself.
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  keyser soze

  Why are you only exposing the so called lies that are taught by JWs but allowing people to promote other false teachings? Are the other lies just harmless?

  Some are far more harmless than others. And if you've really studied the dynamics of this forum, you'd know that Christians don't get a pass from atheists for their beliefs. Faith, in general, is debated ad nauseum on this forum. And when people come on here promoting their own brand of Christianity, they get called out on it.

  Edit to add: Welcome to the forum. Love the user name. I hope you stick around, though maybe you could tone down the judgment a little. Everyone has their own journey.
• 

  LostGeneration

  In my opinion, it is hypocritical for these ones to denigrate active JWs when these same ones were in the same boat only a few months or years ago.

  Hmm, so nobody is allowed to change their opinion about others? When I was a JW, I was a judgemental douchebag. Fact.

  Just because other JWs liked me and didn't tell me such, doesn't make it untrue. While I give JWs a pass on many items because they are under mind control, I no longer give disgusting behaviors like shunning a free pass. It would be worse if I continued to condone such simply because it is part of their belief system. If their belief system is wrong in my opinion, I'm allowed to say so.
• 

  Magnum

  I'm on break at work and just skimmed your post - not enough time to read it entirely, but I will later.

  Just a few points:

  In my opinion, it is hypocritical for these ones to denigrate active JWs when these same ones were in the same boat only a few months or years ago. Many JWs were born into the religion and that is all they know. Why would they do anything different?

  I was a JW not long ago, but I recognized that something was wrong and acted on that recognition. Yes, many were born in, but that should not be all they know. They should know other religions. How can they know they have the truth if they don't know what other religions teach? They would "do something different" because they should have brains and common sense and discernment and questioning minds and be able to recognize that something's wrong.

  Why aren’t you attacking the Catholic or Muslim who has followed their religion since birth?

  I spent over thirty years as a JW doing that. I did it regularly and zealously. It was a constant topic.

  I am astounded when I hear of former JWs that now celebrate Christmas. Are you kidding me? You want the truth but then go back to the deepest, darkest pit of deception. We all know Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus. Why would you trade one set of lies for another?

  I would celebrate Christmas because it's cheerful and fun - not because it's based on some real events. The same reason I love fairly tales and cartoons and movies. They're fun.

  In my opinion, if Jehovah’s Witnesses have it all wrong, then there is no God. But if a personal God does exist, a caring and loving God, then JWs do have ‘the truth’ regardless of all the false prophecies and issues they have with changing doctrine.

  Your opinion is wrong.

  But if a personal God does exist, a caring and loving God, then JWs do have ‘the truth’ regardless of all the false prophecies and issues they have with changing doctrine.

  Why would that be true? You have no logical basis for stating that. That's like saying JWs are right even though they're wrong. There is a mountain of evidence to indicate that JWs are wrong and do not have the truth and would not be approved by god (if there is one). Don't have time now to list specifics, but will later.

  A cult is defined as ‘a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object’

  That's just one definition. It's not that simple or black-and-white. There are other factors involved such as the freedom one has to leave if he chooses and the consequences of leaving. Also involved is the degree to which information is controlled, the degree to which members are isolated, etc.
• 

  NVR2L8

  Heisenber, welcome!

  This site is called JW.net....not muslim or catholic.net so obviously it attract the attention of those involved with the WT cult. The great thing about this site is you don't have to agree with everything others post. As an example, I totally disagree with the previous post from Vanderhoven 7 but at the same time I respect his opinion. I feel no urge to silence him, call him names such as mentally diseased or assume that he supports Satan...do you get my drift? JW is a high control cult that converts people by isolating them from family and friends who are used by Satan when they attempt to hinder their spiritual progress in their "truth". It starts with no longer having time for those outside the cult because the convert will no longer celebrate pagan holidays, then he is busy with studying, attending meetings and eventually preaching...Then the dedication to the organization binds him to obey all rules. Any transgression may result in shunning where he would be isolated from his new "family". In my case, I was raised a JW from the age of 3 and lived faithfully until my early 50s. I served the congregation and had parts at some assemblies. Then I caught the WT lying while doing research in their publications for a public talk. My mother' words resonated in my head: who's the father of the lie? I did more research and found more misquoted secular sources to support WT claims that have since been replaced by new light...I came to the realization that I had been fooled and had no one to turn to without risking to be labeled an apostate. So I kept silent and stopped going to the hall. My wife is still active and the only contact from the "friends" come in the form of salutations through her. My own wife doesn't want to know why I no longer believe...Only a cult can have such a hold on people.

  Heisenberg to me all religion are cults but I can only talk about the one that kept me prisoner for most of my life. I have enjoyed 4 years of freedom where I went from existing to living.
• 

  Vidqun

  One must practice what one preaches. This is especially true of religion. If you find out a religious group says one thing and practices another, that would be hypocritical. E.g. if you call the UN "the disgusting thing causing desolation" and "the beast that ascends from the abyss" and you join them for the sake of a library card, there is something seriously wrong with your reasoning.

  When they say they care about children and also protect the pedophiles that prey on them, then the time has come for you to examine yourself and your religion. Perhaps your religion is straying from the truth. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to go with the flow, or are you going to make your reservations known? By the way, if you choose to go with the flow, you will remain in good standing with the organization. However, if you choose to make your reservations known, you will be disfellowshipped.