because people who are grieving will desperately grasp on to what the think is offering them hope-Mikado
I think this is a good point. When many are vulnerable they clutch at straws to believe anything that will make them feel better. Kate xx
Satan and the demons, ghosts, spirits, fortune tellers. Are they real?
by KateWild 84 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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KateWild
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KateWild
Good point Julia, I think bad spirits are all about control through fear. Kate xx
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Strangelove
I really don't give much thought to the existance of a God anymore, if it's there, it's there, if not, then oh well.
As for Satan and his Demons, No, I do not think they exist. Nor do I think Demons of any form exist, or Hell for that matter. (Heaven too)
In my studies, I have yet to attend a Fortune Teller. For fun I might, but I know full well how silly the act would be.
And finnally as for Spirits, maybe. Yeah, this one I'm not too sure on yet. I used to conclude a big fat NO over the whole thing. But as of late, have held an open view for it. I know it sounds predictable for me to say, "Well, I once heard this story." And yeah, they are all probably just stories. But the person who told me there experience, I don't think she was lying. I knew her to be a rational and even scientific person. Always searching for the best explanation, and when she couldn't, she only confided in a few people. For fear of being called crazy. Which is reasonable enough a course as any. If I saw a Ghost, I most certainly wouldn't tell anyone about it. Maybe some form of our conscience sticks around after death, or maybe it doesn't. This has been discussed to death for centuries. And we're no where closer to concluding anything, because there will never be any concrete proof. Only peoples experiences. And based on some of them, maybe.
I am of course skeptical of the concept, but am open to the possibility.
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MadGiant
Hallucinations happen when someone sees, hears, smells, tastes or feels things that don't exist outside their mind. They are common in people with schizophrenia, and are usually experienced as hearing voices.
Hallucinations can be frightening as they may be unexpected or unwanted, but there's usually an identifiable cause. They can occur as a result of:
taking illicit drugs or alcohol
a mental illness such as schizophrenia or dementia
a progressive neurological condition such as Alzheimer's disease or Parkinson's disease
loss of vision caused by a condition such as macular degeneration, this is known as Charles Bonnet syndrome.http://www.nbcnews.com/health/body-odd/see-ghosts-there-may-be-medical-reason-f1C9926902
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KateWild
Thanks strangelove for your opinion. Thanks Mad Giant for teeling us about mental illnesses. Kate xx
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designs
There is probably some sort of self suggestive hypnosis going on when you go to a tarot card reader or fortune teller or seance.
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Apognophos
Personally I don't think the specific stories of the Bible have any likelihood of being true, but I can't rule out the existence of spirits.
When you think about it though, there's little point in asking anyone's opinion about this, because there is no way to scientifically test for the existence of said spirits. Additionally, as has been pointed out, even a sincere and intelligent person can be totally mistaken about an experience they had. Therefore, only a personal experience can really mean anything; and even then we should be wary about our own perceptions. Otherwise we could become one of those very same people that repeats a misunderstood event to others as proof of spirits.
That all being said, I doubt that most of the people here who question the existence of the supernatural have actually attempted to contact any spirit beings themselves (I'm not referring to saying prayers to God here, obviously). There are experiences which could be considered verifiable; a simple example would be receiving a statement of knowledge that could not have come from the human realm, about yourself or about the future. Recently we had a thread HERE where some talked about their personal experiences with fortune tellers. I'm sure you must remember it since you posted there :-)
Good point Julia, I think bad spirits are all about control through fear.
No offense, KateWild, but I continually see you equating religion with control. Surely you realize that the initial purpose of religion was to assuage fear, not to create it? People developed religion to deal with frightening things like contemplation of their death ("Will I really cease to exist?"), uncontrollable situations ("What can we do to make it rain so we don't starve to death?"), and imminent danger ("Will we be able to win the battle against the tribe over the hill tomorrow or will we all be slaughtered?").
The development of shamans and priests would have happened organically, just as leaders of all sorts arise organically from a group. They did not invent religion as a clever scheme to control people, they simply seemed to have more right answers than the average person about what would appease the gods. Most people desperately need leaders in their lives or they feel adrift, helpless. So leadership is as much a product of the followers' needs as any needs of the leader.
Even today, religion is not mostly about control. You should ask someone in the priesthood why they went into that line of work. Most will give reasons pertaining to their own spiritual needs or talk about religion as a community service. I realize that you're coming out of a very controlling religion, but it doesn't do to simplify a complex situation by extrapolating the one thing you hated most about one tiny religion to all of the world's religions.
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cantleave
Read paranormality by Prof. Richard Wiseman.
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Theredeemer
I had an argument about this with someone about this and at the end I challenged the old prince of darkness himself to a fight. Of course, the person said that he already won because I dont believe in him and him tormenting me would only push me to believe in god. So I said "Then why does he or demons torment people who believe in god in the first place?!". "Because god allows the faithful to be tested", the person said. "But would'nt that turn them closer to god, which is exactly the opposite of what the Devil intends or wants?" I asked. Response was, "The devil is impatient and egotistical and does'nt think things through". "Well he seems to have played the Adam and Eve situation perfectly because it's been thousands of years of suffering, death and torment, god had to send his own son to die, wars on earth, wars in heaven, thousands of religions, sickness and millions of people who are atheists and Justin Beiber". This person said "The devil doesnt realize that he is playing right into gods hands". I said "Now he does!! You just told him!!". WTF?! At that point I walked away.
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designs
T- lol
Although the existence of Justin Beiber does make me wonder....