The Trinity Is A False Doctrine!

by non_trias_theos 129 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed
    I think you are leaving out the fact that Jesus, took on human form, a little lower than the angels. At times He spoke from the human point of view, such as when He said, "the Father is greater than I" of course in the human form "a little lower than the angels" the Father would be greater than He. That would be true also when He called God, the Only True God. When He would again take the form of God, those words would no longer have the same meaning.

    WHat you are missing out on, Borgfree, is that throughout the Bible, God is said to be only one God. Whether human or spirit, Jesus called another "the ONLY True God." He didn't say, "until I get back," "while I am away," or anything of the kind.

    Bear in mind, you are describing two distinct Gods if Jesus took on human form and still referred to another as "the ONLY True God," only until he returned to heaven. If you believe Jesus is God, and there is only one God, it cannot be Jesus since he prayed to and spoke to another he called God.

  • Bang
    Bang

    "How is it then that David, inspired by the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying, `The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, till I put thy enemies under thy feet?`"

  • the follower
    the follower

    willpower,
    I don't think that the quote is deceptive in any sense. What you must remember is that the quote is in the section about whether the Trinity is an *explicit* Bible teaching. Although the writer quoted does support the Trinity teaching believing it to be of divine origin, he does also appear to agree with the society that it is not *explicity* taught in either the Old or New Testaments.

  • living water
    living water

    The father the Son and the Holy Spirit. IS a alive and well. JESUS is the living God. Its a trick of the enmey to believe anything else. Only through the son can you get to the father. Thats the truth please seek him and the truth. All of us are mislead in our lives seek JESUS the name above all names

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    Forget it Dakota, don't even try to understand. Some things are beyond human comprehension. The spiritual realm is not for those who put hope in the flesh.

    Mystery - The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1910. [Wow they wrote something in 1910 and still refer to it? ooooooooo]
    "In the New Testament the word mystery is applied ordinarily to the sublime revelation of the gospel [Matt.13:11; Col. 2:2; 1 Tim. 3:9; 1 Cor. 15:51], and to the Incarnation and life of the Saviour and his manifestation by the preachng of the apostles [Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:4; 6:19, Col. 1:26; 4:3]
    ...Mystery, therefore, in its strict theological sense is not synonymous with the incomprehensible, since all that we know is incomprehensible, i.e., not adequately comprehensible as to its inner being; nor with the unknowable, since many things merely natural are accidentally unknowable, on account of their inaccessibility, eg., things that are future, remote, or hidden." [See, suggested reading - 1st century Christian writers, their own entire works, Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, Ireaneus]

    God is infinite. How can man's mind that has barely scratched the surface of our own being & planet, use this knowledge to define an omnipresent creator of unimaginable power? Even if God himself revealed the mystery of the universe to you Dakota, or anyone else choosing to put limits on the concept of God, would you comprehend? Could you relate this experience to others so that they could understand?
    The bible says that without the Holy Spirit, nothing can be revealed.
    The Watchtower says, that the Holy Spirit is reserved for only 144,000, 8,000 of which are left on the planet in a kingdom hall somewhere, a regular person's hope to gain such revelation is useless.
    GB say you must read a watchtower magazine to feel like you are with the "in" crowd.
    The bible is filled with passages attributed to both God the Father & Jesus, the Son.
    I liked that analogy of a human[substance] can be a Father, a Son, a husband, a George, a friend, a King, all at once!
    Jesus said that whenever 2 or 3 are gathered in my name, I will be there. How could He be in so many places at once?

    If no one has ever seen the God/Creator [as Jesus also stated] how else would a supreme spiritual being reveal itself? Humans have 5 senses. Jesus & the Holy Spirit have revealed God to man with whispers & visions [the Word], sight [Jesus walked the earth , miracles, healings, resurrection], recall of things taught, teach the Word, comfort, [the holy spirit] etc.
    Impossible? What isn't with God?

  • Will Power
    Will Power
    I don't think that the quote is deceptive in any sense. What you must remember is that the quote is in the section about whether the Trinity is an *explicit* Bible teaching. Although the writer quoted does support the Trinity teaching believing it to be of divine origin, he does also appear to agree with the society that it is not *explicity* taught in either the Old or New Testaments

    WOW, it is amazing. This is the exact explanation I got about a year ago! Is this in a little book somewhere or have we spoken before follower.
    Is this really how you feel? That it is not deceptive?
    Does this brochure indicate that the writer does support the idea of the trinity and it to be of divine origin? Or more like it is a made up word and no one knows how in the hell it ever got started in the first place.

    For WT followers & Dakota
    Excerpt from a book by Jason Evert, pg 60
    ...Christ distinctly revealed that there are three Persons in the Godhead - The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Christ also revealed that God is love (1 John 4:16). But can love actually exist in isolation, as Witnesses suppose was the case before the creation of the world?
    In order for love to exist, there must be a lover, a beloved, and the love between them. If God were a solitary Person, there would have been no love apart from the creation of the world, making God dependent on the world for part of his very nature. In 1 John 4:16, we are told that God is love, not merely that God shows love. But by his nature, God cannot be dependent on the world for his essence as love, and so we see a plurality within the Godhead [not plural heads]suggests: The Lover is the Father, his Beloved is the Son, and the Love between them is the Holy Spirit.
    For all the hebrew scholars
    Let us create man in our image...

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed
    Forget it Dakota, don't even try to understand. Some things are beyond human comprehension. The spiritual realm is not for those who put hope in the flesh.

    You know Will, that is very close to a typical dub stick your head in the sand response. It never ceases to amaze me that invaribly, I always hear basically, "it is a mystery and you just have to accept it."

    Sorry, but long before getting sucked into the dubs, I saw the fallacy of the trinity.

    But, since to mention that it is beyond human comprehension, how does that jive with; RSV 1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good,

    If, as you say, I am not supposed to be able to comprehend it, how do I test it?

    As for putting hope in the flesh, sorry, but you are off base there too. I take Jesus at his word and discard what modern scholars wish me to think. So, just who is really putting their hope in the flesh?

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    For WillPower and other trinitarians: Excerpts from The Doctrine of the Trinity, Christianity's Self Inflicted Wound, by Anthony Buzzard & Charles Hunting:

    Forward;
    "Professor Buzzard and Charles Hunting point out that one of the great marvels of Christian history has been the ability of post-biblical theologians to convince Christian people that three Persons are really one God. Paul preached the whole counsel of God (Acts 20:28). Why did he not explain the Trinity?"

    Forward;
    "... the doctrine of the Trinity is an adult theological myth. Christianity condemns the world for imposing the unproved theory of evolution on mankind. But orthodoxy imposes something equally problematic: a multiple-person God." (Sidney A. Hatch, B.A. (UCLA),M.Div. (American Baptist Seminary of the West), Th. M. (Dallas Theological Seminary;

    Page 6,7;
    "Trinitarian dogma is one of the great enigmas of our time. The fact that it defies both conventional logic and rational explanation does not seem to diminish the Trinitarians desire to protect at all costs his complex theological formula. We are puzzled at the agitation that is created when the Trinity is questioned. This seems to point to a lack of confidence in what is claimed to be the unquestionable party line of virtually all Christian ministers. The common branding of all objectors as unbelievers does nothing to reassure us."

    Page 45
    "...the Apostles claimed to have found "the one whom Moses in the Law, and the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth" (John 1:45). That predicted Messiah was not God, but God's ultimate human spokesman. To claim, therefore, that John intended to present Jesus as God would throw his own testimony into hopeless contradiction."

    " Paradoxically, traditional theology has attributed to Jesus the claim to be God, a blasphemy which he discounted by asserting his claim to be the Son of God. Son of God is a legitimate title for a supreme representative of God, since the judges themselves have been referred to as gods (John 10:34; Psalms 82:6), which for Jesus is the equivalent to Son of God (John 10:36). To be the Son of God was to to demonstrate perfect obedience to the Father, the ideal status of Israel whose citizens are destined to be "sons of the living God (Hos 1:10). "Son of God" is also the recognized title of the Messiah, God's chosen king. And it was to prove the Messiahship of jesus that John penned his entire Gospel (John 20:31)." (The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self Inflicted Wound, 1998, Anthony F. Buzzard, Charles F. Hunting, International Scholars Publications, Page 309)

    "Much of the confusion which obstructs clear thinking about the Godhead may be traced to a prime cause. We have not reckoned with changes in the meaning of words, effected by time, as language is transplanted from one culture to another. A foremost example of this is the term "Son of God," which most today unconsciously translate as "God, the Son," a meaning which it cannot possibly bear in the original Christian documents." (The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self Inflicted Wound, 1998, Anthony F. Buzzard, Charles F. Hunting, International Scholars Publications, Page 3)

    "The meaning of words must be sought within the environment in which they were written. The Bible was not composed in the 20th century, nor did it's writers know anything of the subsequent creeds and councils. Context is all-important in determining the author's intent. Within the pages of [the Bible] Jesus never referred to himself as God. The fact is that the New Testament applies the word God -- in it's Greek form ho theos -- to God, the Father alone some 1350 times. The words ho theos (i.e. the one God), used absolutely, are nowhere with certainty applied to Jesus." (The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self Inflicted Wound, 1998, Anthony F. Buzzard, Charles F. Hunting, International Scholars Publications, Page 84

  • Bang
    Bang

    There are those who believe that Jesus is God, and those who don't.

    And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

    Bang

  • borgfree
    borgfree

    DakotaRed, You quoted:

    " Paradoxically, traditional theology has attributed to Jesus the claim to be God, a blasphemy which he discounted by asserting his claim to be the Son of God.

    To be the Son of God was to demonstrate perfect obedience to the Father

    There were times when Jesus was worshipped. Jesus did not tell the worshippers “don’t do that, worship God alone” Would His not doing so, be, at the least, disrespectful to God? Unless, He was fully entitled to such worship?

    "The meaning of words must be sought within the environment in which they were written. The Bible was not composed in the 20th century, nor did it's writers know anything of the subsequent creeds and councils.
    A Christian believes, the author of the bible is God, Himself. A Christian would not be as concerned with how an analyst views the wording of the bible, since God would make sure the instructions He wanted conveyed would be conveyed.

    Jesus never referred to himself as God.
    That statement is debatable, some think that by using the term “Son of God” He was showing He was divine. I think the Jews viewed His words just that way. That is why they wanted to stone Him, for “making Himself like God”

    The words ho theos (i.e. the one God), used absolutely, are nowhere with certainty applied to Jesus."
    I was at a lecture once, where the speaker demonstrated, from the scriptures, that there were indeed scriptures where ho theos was used for Jesus. I do not have the time to search for that information, but at the time, I did follow along with his argument, and was convinced that ho theos did apply to Jesus, as well as the Father.

    I think there are some on the forum who could probably cite those scriptures.

    Borgfree

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