Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father? (page 10)

cofty

I haven't mentioned 1 Cor 11:3.

My question is as clear as your evasion.

The resurrected and risen Jesus refers to the father as "my god". Numerous NT authors alo refer to "the god and father of our lord Jesus christ".

1 - A god is an object of worship.

2 - The father is the god of Jesus.

3 - Therefore Jesus worships the father.

Unless you really want to assert that Jesus is, in some odd way, also the god of the father then you have a intractable problem regarding equality of the father and the son.

You need to deal with this before we can move forward.

jonza

Where is your question? You are far from clear. This little symbol '?' denotes a question. See my first sentence for an example.

You haven't mentioned any verses at all thus far.

cofty

Jonza if you are going to resort to sophomoric point-scoring in order to avoid dealing with a knock-down argument against the trinity, then my work here is done.

In case you are overcome with an attack of intellectual honesty here is your dilemma..

The resurrected and risen Jesus refers to the father as "my god". Numerous NT authors alo refer to "the god and father of our lord Jesus christ".

1 - A god is an object of worship.

2 - The father is the god of Jesus.

3 - Therefore Jesus worships the father.

4 - Therefore the father and son are not equal.

While I still don't see a question there I will try to decipher one. I will assume your question is: "If Jesus worshiped God and the Father is the God of Jesus that how can that not mean the Father is greater than the Son?"

Jesus the man was born subject to the law (Galatians 4:4) and therefore was required to worship God as well as acknowledge Him as God (Deuteronomy 6:13). Philippians 2:7 says Jesus emptied himself and took on the form of a man. Therefore He used to be of a much higher position until He became a man. When Jesus worships God and calls him His God here is merely keeping the law as a man. That does not mean He is not also fully God though.

Are you going to answer any of my questions now?

cofty

Jonza

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Therefore He used to be of a much higher position until He became a man

The resurrected and risen Jesus refers to the father as "my god". Numerous NT authors alo refer to "the god and father of our lord Jesus christ" - AFTER JESUS' RESURRECTION.

You are only willing to about the human Jesus because you have no answer for my actual question.

I haven't cited any verses becasue I am paying you the respect of assuming you know your bible. If I am mistaken let me know.

jonza

After His resurrection Jesus remained fully man and fully God.

cofty

After resurrection Jesus remained fully man and fully God.

More double-talk.

Even if that was true - and I would love to ask you a few rational questions about that later - the fact remains that Jesus continues to worship the father even after he was glorified.

Therefore he is in no way equal to the object of his worship.

For the sixth time...

Does the father worship the son?

jonza

Jesus remained a man therefore would continue to worship the Father. I'm more than happy for you to ask questions about that.

I've already answered your question. I don't see why God the Father would need to worship the Son, being a man. To the best of my knowledge that isn't clear in the Bible. I've already shown where the Bible says that the Father glorifies Jesus and declares that He is to be worshiped. That you have agreed to. That being said, the Bible states, God alone is to be worshiped. How can you explain that? (add that to the list of unanswered questions).

Are you going to answer any of my questions now?

cofty

I've already shown where the Bible says that the Father glorifies Jesus and declares that He is to be worshiped. That you have agreed to.

I haven't agreed to any such thing.

Are you claiming that this text (what is the chapter and verse please) shows that the father worships the son?

Please explain how the glorified Jesus worhips the father and yet is equal to him.

Are you going to answer any of my questions now?

If and when you ever give straight answers first. The dilemma is yours not mine.

jonza

I refer you to this statement you made: "I am not denying that worship is rendered to Jesus in the bible - this is particularly clear in Revelation."

So are you saying the Father does not glorify the Son? Are you now saying Jesus is not to be worshiped? When earlier you said that He is?

I have already answered you. It really is quite simple. Jesus being fully man (and fully God) and a perfect sinless man obeys the law and therefore worships God. Being also fully God means He is not less than the Father.

John 5:18 says clearly Jesus was making Himself equal with God. That is not the words of any other man talking, that is Scripture. They knew who He was claiming to be.

I am giving straight answers to your questions. I'm still waiting for your answers.

Are you going to answer any of my questions now?

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

Jonza

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