How do JWs Not see how barbaric YHWH is? Its what started my awakening. (page 9)

AndDontCallMeShirley

@ Vidiot...

Here's why zealots and religious nutters escalate their violence while the rest of humanity becomes, well...more humane:

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"Men, in order to do evil, must first believe that what they are doing is good." -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Perry exemplifies this quite clearly. He'll go along with whatever his god says. What better and easier way can there be to get people to do the most heinous acts against fellow human beings than convince them the orders came from god himself? Or, at the very least, fundamentalists will stand on the sidelines and cheer god on as he works his wickedness.

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To your point, as education levels increase so does competency; more competency means the less a person feels he must childish cling to a skydaddy. A person is then free to allow normal human decency to prevail rather than nodding approvingly at morally offensive ideas simply because their god promotes them. Meanwhile, religion is bogged down in silly tradition and cannot/will not break the inertia of mythical concepts that are well past their expiration date:

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"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". -Isaac Asimov

Shanagirl

Badfish, Yes, Jesus quotes Old Testament Scripture when he is in the desert for 40 days and nights, and is tempted by the devil :

The devil actually uses Scripture to tempt Jesus, but Jesus quotes right back to him: (Matthew 4:1-10) He did use OT scripture in his illustrations when he taught also. He knows this creator god very well, and more detail is given in the Apocyphon of John when he was telling John about this creator god and how he and his demons created humans. Apocryphon of John http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html : The creator god is called Yaldabaoth, the First or Chief Ruler: And the True God thru Christ causes the image of a human shine down to Yaldabaoth, which caused him and his demons to tremble, then they decided to create a creature that matched this image they saw from True God. Here is where the story begins as Jesus told it to John;

Humanity Begins

Then came a voice from the highest realms saying:
“The Man exists! And the Son of Man!”

Yaldabaoth, chief ruler, heard it
He thought it came from his mother
He did not know the true source of the voice:
The Holy Mother-Father
Perfect Providence
Image of the Invisible
Father of Everything
In whom everything has come to be.

The First Man
[This is the one who appeared to them.
He appeared in the form of a human being.]

All of the realm of the chief ruler quaked!
The foundations of the abyss moved!

He illuminated the waters above the world of matter,
His image shown in those waters.

All the demons and the first ruler together gazed up
Toward the underside of the newly shining waters.
Through that light they saw the Image in the waters.

Yaldabaoth said to his subordinate demons:
“Let’s create a man according to the image of God
And our own likeness
So that his image will illuminate us.”

Each one through another’s Power created aspects of the man;
Each added a characteristic corresponding to the psychic factors
They had seen in the Image above them.
They made a creature of substance
In the likeness of that perfect First Man
And they said, “Let us call him Adam, so that his name will give us the power of light.”

Shana

AndDontCallMeShirley

the replacement fairytale sounds equally as absurd as the original fairytale.....

Apognophos

Shanagirl, it's good to question what we've been taught, but you haven't looked at the bigger picture yet: what if all of these old writings are just people making things up? They may have even believed what they were writing, but that doesn't mean they had any special knowledge, only delusions.

Shanagirl

AnDon'tCallMeShirley - I do lik fairytales

Apognophos - Yes you're right, I do agree with you. Reading these stories, though, and using some critical thinking, I can see that many ancient stories have been passed down through the ages by people. When reading these stories, I can see that the Bible has had many versions of these myths,..but I do think, the Apocypha writings have interesting ways of describing everything we as JWs were brainwashed with. I find it more believable that this Bible god is the Yaldabaoth demon god spoken of in Christian Gnostic Scripture. I also wonder why in the Bible, Enoch is not really mentioned much, other than "god took him". Yet there is a whole book of Enoch that was not included by the Early Church Fathers in the Bible Canon. This book goes more deeply into the flood of Noah as well as the Nephilim. I'm not saying I believe it's all totally true but these books have value in getting an idea of the big picture as far as God is concerned.

For instance, we all talk about "mother nature", yet thinking on this and reading the ancient gnostic writings that describe The True God of all things is androgenous and begets androgenous beings. I think that's so cool, that God and Christ, and are spoken of as "Mother-Father". True God has a feminine aspect that is made up of Foreknowledge whicn led to the creation of all things. How cool is that. Do I totally believe this? Not sure, but I like the idea of Christ's Father in Heaven, emanated from himself the Feminine aspect, and then sparked the only begotten, or self- begotten Christ being, through which all creation began.

Shana

AndDontCallMeShirley

Shana: I do lik fairytales

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Obviously...

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Shana: I find it more believable that this Bible god is the Yaldabaoth demon god spoken of in Christian Gnostic Scripture

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Why???

We might as well debate why Superman is more real than Spiderman, or the Tooth Fairy then Peter Pan...

Shanagirl

AnDon'tCallMeShirley We might as well debate why Superman is more real than Spiderman, or the Tooth Fairy then Peter Pan...

Why? Does it really matter? JWs will tell you Jehovah, is the true god, they have the truth, bla bla bla. But their Jehovah god is a borrowed myth,

whether he is Yaldabaoth, Baal, Molech, Zeus,......

Shana

Comatose

I have to say Shana... I read your posts with eagerness to see if the name Yaldabaoth will be in it. Its just a little thing I have for you now for some reason. I like to see how often you refer to Yaldabaoth.

Yaldabaoth be blessed!

AndDontCallMeShirley

But their Jehovah god is a borrowed myth

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as is every other fictional god....Yakobreath included. It's pure, unadulterated childish nonsense.

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Why? Does it really matter?

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actually it does matter, because devotion to these non-existent, fictional characters is so strong among the religious they'll do most anything to prove their faith. As has been clearly demonstrated by at least one individual in this discussion, your garden variety genocides and all sorts of atrocities are condoned...as long as it is the fictional god, accepted as real, giving the orders. Plus, to believe in this nonsense is devotion of energy and thinking that can be used for much greater purpose....

Shanagirl

Comatose - Ha ha ha I know right!!! I'm just so obsessed with this stuff it's so interesting, and it gauls me to think that the JWs are so smug as to think they represent the Almighty God of the Universe and make other people's lives miserable with there Jehoover rules.

Shana

How do JWs Not see how barbaric YHWH is? Its what started my awakening.

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