Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B 288 Replies latest jw friends

  • cofty

    Tammy - You never go long without throwing in, "my lord told me.. " or "I got this from my lord"

    I detest charlatans like Mystic Meg and it is impossible not to put you in the same category.

    Just talk to us like intelligent adults.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    My LORD sums it up neatly. He is your Lord which excludes people such as Cofty and myself. This is the epitome of the Jeovah's Witnesss basic teaching. Believe in Jehovah, our exclusive God, who will destroy every small child and infant at Armageddon unless they are active Witnesses. Do you wonder that such statements are provocative? You know they are. It was the express purpose of your statement. Well, I say have your LORD because I have Christ, who is inclusive. Paul taught inclusion. If people don't believe in Christ, it is fine with the Christ everyone else believes. Christ would never destroy people. Paul expressly states that speaking in tongues is the least useful gift of all b/c it excludes. I find equal worth in Hindus or Buddhists. My cultural preference is for Christ.

    You and your friend go around as though you are such better Christians b/c you claim Christ speaks to you. Well, I say auditory hallucination plus chutzpah.

    In the end, it does not matter. Some truly wounded people may be attracted to your Christ. Most of us learned a lesson from the WT. We reject any exclusive, dominating God. Many of us don't believe at all. Despite your ongoing efforts, you have found few takers of your belief. No one wants you banned. I don't even want you stopped. I do feel people should be warned. Let me cite but one telling example from your forum. The baby tooth discussion. Shelby was instructing members at your forum how burning destroys the ability to be resurrected. She had no proof. It is always speculation. People in the forum expressed fears of cremation. This is so JW. A true God would overcome burning. Jesus said the very stones could be raised. Someone responded that our baby teeth were not burned at cremation. People were so happy b/c someplace in some trash dump baby teeth exist. They could be resurrected even if cremated.

    This makes the Witness look very sane. I feel most existing Witnesses can detect mental illness. What does the WT teach us? I recall such silly discussions at the KH and in field service. There is no scriptural support for any of us. Most of us must deal with work and other demands of every day life. Suckers are born every minute. If I told people I worked with that I found such content at a website, the laughing and mockery would commence. It would be nice if exiting Witnesses found rational thinking here. I believe they do for the most part. Tammy was never a Witness so I don't understand what her agenda here is.

    I refuse to go back to the days of Shelby. The attention whore posts running into 20+ pages. This forum is a better place without the provocation. I must apologize for feeding her. I will not feed you. Certain members don't want to hear from you. I am one. Anyone who was an active Witness knows why this is so inflammatory. It is your belief. Fine. I wholeheartedly disagree. Auditory hallucinations need to be treated by a medical team. Others can argue with uou this round. I forgot what a tense place this was for me when I constantly faced mental illness masquerading as Christianity. You actually expect everyone to say fine, you are so special. We turn over our will to you. Never. We are not bad people if we disagree in the most strenuous of fashions. Please post so others can observe the arrogance and mental illness.

  • tec

    Band, most of that is repetitive, as would my responses be repetitive, but I will try to clear one thing up for you:

    I say my Lord, because He IS my Lord. I say this on my forum as well, among those who aslo profess Him as their Lord. It is not a possessive thing that excludes Him from being the Lord of anyone else. Now, some - like you and cofty - specifically state that my Lord is not their Lord... but that is between them and their Lord (if they claim a Lord; Cofty does not), and has nothing to do with me.

    My Lord also does not destroy men women and children who do not believe in Him. The sheep (from the parable of the sheep and the goats) are not Christians, but are those who did good to Christ without knowing it, by doing good to those who belonged to Him, and they are invited INTO the kingdom also. As subjects of that Kingdom. They are not the Bride. They do not know Christ, but Christ knows THEM, by what they did unknowingly for Him. Even the 'goats' are not destroyed by Him, but are not permitted into the Kingdom, are instead told to go, into the outer darkness (outside the Kingdom that has the Light/life - Christ - within it) Because of what they did, or did not do... and because the measure that they used, is used against him.



  • cofty

    Tammy you are being willfully obtuse.

    Nobody objects to you calling god your lord.

    As has been explained to you very clearly above, I object to you behaving like a cheap, wannabe, spirit medium and pretending to pass on messages that are just in from the almighty.

    It's pretentious and insulting.

    Please stop it.

    if they claim a Lord; Cofty does not

    Nobody is my lord. I got off my knees years ago.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run


    I learned a lesson from Shelby. As far you are concerned, I will absolutely ignore anything you post. There is notihng worthwile to ever read. You contribute little to the forum.

  • tec

    Cofty, I was responding to the one who DID object to it. As to what you object to, that is your perception/opinion and I cannot change this. But if you are asking me to stop 'behaving like a cheap, wannabe, spirit medium and pretending to pass on messages that are just in from the almighty'... well, I never started so as TO stop.


    tammy (moving on now....)

  • adamah

    Nic said- Many modern forums have 'ignore' buttons.

    True, but this forum has a feature that's even better: write a response to vent, but then instead of clicking on the ✓ Submit button, click on the X Cancel button!

    It's actually good practice for working on one's impulse control, since you cannot suppress or inhibit everything that 'gets your goat' (sic: baaaahhh!!!), but only can control your reaction(s). Sure, it's technically-possible for users to customize whatever posts they see, but it's kinda silly, since it's a passive technological form of 'shunning'. And why would you want to do that anyway? I'd rather see what everyone says, so I at least have the option to address it.

    Besides, if the likes of TEC weren't posting, who would be there to take the opposite position of the debate? That's very KH-esque uniformity, where all those who post HAVE to agree (or else).

    And any ex-JW here should know how Xian "persecution complexes" work, right? In case you forgot, it's pretty pointless to oppose a JW, since they're only going to interpret it as coming from 'Say-in'!

    But if you cannot challenge a poster on the substance on their points, then don't simply attack on style or as an ad hominem. Regardless of WHO does it, it's not rational, and it's a 'foul'.

  • cofty

    Objecting to foolish assertions that a person's opinions have just been spoken by the almighty is not ad hominem.

    who would be there to take the opposite position of the debate?

    How about reasonable intelligent believers? People like Jgnat who started an excellent thread a few days ago that still hasn't been fully explored.

    Surely there are others who would want to argue for deism or process theology or open theism or panentheism? How about somebody who would like to defend the liberal position of theologians like John Shelby Spong? People who are wrestling with the big questions and still see value in what faith traditions have to say about them. Wouldn't it be interesting to have challenging conversations like that?

    Instead we get the same old sophomoric, "my lord says come... blah blah" and your walls of self-indulgent text that add fuel to the fire.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    There is no point. I believe in rational thinking and academic pursuit. When people hear voices that do not exist, they are not rational. There can be no true discussion. Better to ignore it. I tried arguing and it was not fruitful. People must share certain basics in order to have a debate. What can one say to a claim of auditory hallucinations? Have a good hearing nonexistent voices. No, there are far more interesting discussions here. I understand that they feel the voices are valid. I don't have to concur. Besides arguing only gives them more legitimacy in their viewpoint.

  • Gopher

    I don't think the whole forum has become a Believer/Atheist war zone (to answer the original question if anyone still wants to discuss that point). However as this thread has illustrated, there are certain pockets of the forum where battles take place and each side tries to get the upper hand. Eventually both sides tire out and believe they made their point and they "won".

    Such is the stuff of human nature, on this forum and any other place where you gather a thousand or more different people. It doesn't mean that as a whole, this forum has lost focus on the fact that the Watchtower Society harms people. Where we go on the spectrum of religion (eastern vs. western, Catholic vs. Protestant, believer vs. non-believer) is hopefully right for each one of us, and not just something into which we were tricked or something we just took up without thinking it through.

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