Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B 288 Replies latest jw friends

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  Band on the Run

  I fear that certain people who call themselves believers who claim that Christ talks to them are recruiting members here. They started their own forum. When they post content here, they should people to respond bc this forum is called a discussion form. I did not leave the Witnesses to pat someone who hears voices from Christ on the back. My first post here was a bit scary for me. Someone who hears voices directly from Christ but not Christ. She gives him another name. Scriptures could not be referenced b/c some scriptures are recognized by this group while others are not valid b/c of the Christ but not Christ's oral directions to the poster. I never found that these members posted that this is my belief. No, it was always you cannot have another belief that contradicts my oral directions from whatchamacallit. This is not part of the social contract at a discussion forum. In retrospect, I should have retreated.

  I would not overstate the presence on this forum of such believers. Perhaps a handful at most. If an atheist or progressive Christian did not endorse their view, wow! Speaking from my personal experience, it was arriving here and meeting the totalitarianism of the JW GB. No atheist ever confronted me in such a manner. No one. I am a progressive Christian and agree with evolution. As an active Christian, I found these voices disruptive. I must state that Tammy is the exception. She never was aggressive. If I posted information from a standard academic seminary text, I was corrected. B/c the voices heard from Christ yet not Christ were so intensely personal and bizarre, there was nothing to discuss.

  It is sad that this phenomena existed. Evolution is accepted today. It is no longer controversial. If you are informed, you accept evolution. Personally, I questin whether God could use intelligent design as a form of creation. I don't know. This is no longer the 1950s America. The educated world accepts evolution. I don't know anyone in a major Christian denomination who believes in creation as in a literal account of Adam and Eve. It strikes me that the essence of JWism is literal faith in the Bible. Evolution is the largest fact looming in the world that directly contradicts a literal rendering of Bible truth. There are so many facts available today that contradicts most of what is in the Bible. I don't believe that the Bible writers ever meant for these stories to be read literally. Ancient people were sophisticated. Rather, I see these stories as a literary genre that may reveal underlying truths. Furthermore, moral values are confronted between fundamentalists and main stream Christians. Do we worship a God who wiped out women and children for membership in a nonJewish group? What evidence is there for the Flood or Exodus? Did the walls of Jericho tumble down? Did the sun stop moving so Jews could win a battle? Was David a moral man? Enquiring minds want to know.

  These issues are emotinally laden for me precisely b/c of my Witness upbringing? If I wanted a stale, antiseptic discussion of these issues, there are far better websites. I suppose National Geographic has such content. The History Channel is full of such programming. I notice that the History Channel runs its commentary. It is does not supply a forum of believers to call it wrong. No, believers here want respect. Some believers get respect. I respect when believers just post their belief. It is the posting of reproof or rebukes that anger me. I had no choice but to listen to this garbage as a child and teenager. Otherwise,, this is not a discussion forum but a site to run religious commercials. I simply want discussion.

  Maybe the people discussing evolution are no longer interested in the WT. Also, we should just be ourselves. If we start thinking about what would appetizing for a lurker or newbie, we are no longer ourselves. If I encountered people hearing voices orally from Christ, I would run, run, run. Sometimes I wonder if they mean they hear voices literally or figuratively. I assumed it was a symbolic use of the word when I first encountered it here. No, it is looney bin time. The GB never claimed to hear literal voices. It makes the WT seem very good.
• 

  cofty

  certain people who call themselves believers who claim that Christ talks to them are recruiting members here. They started their own forum.

  This concerns me very much. I have been told from former/current members that it is an abusive and manipulative environment.

  Spiritually vulnerable people do not need somebody trying to entice them to join a new cult.
• 

  KateWild

  I have been told from former/current members that it is an abusive and manipulative environment.-cofty

  Really? No one has tried to intice me, I am faced with abuse from my ex on a daily basis, this forum is an escape for me. What exactly do the members find abusive and manipulative cofty?

  Kate xx
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  cofty

  Not this forum Kate.

  Please read my post again.
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  KateWild

  Which forum? I have been to xjwforchrist and jwstruggle I believe in God, but am not tempted to comment on their boards, I have friends from both forums...I just don't fit in with all the posters on those sites.

  Kate xx
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  Band on the Run

  Kate,

  They were very active here. For some reason, the members left b/c people here were not signing up to join them. They wanted a place where no one would challenge them. I visited for a while. The forum became locked to outsiders. IN fairness, a group of atheists also left and start their own forum where no would challenge them. Altho I thought the atheist forum would be welcoming, it was not. The "atheists" spied on the "believers." It was petty and cruel. Both of these forums attracted few members compared to JWN. Recently, some members of the "believers" forum returned to JWN. The same demands as before are being made. They evidently want Simon to segregate a portion of JWN so no one can challenge them.

  Many people come here from the Witnesses very confused. There are at least two concerns. First, that reading about Christ talking to them literally, newsbies will believe former Witnesses are all mentally ill. I find these claims of hallucinations to be troubling. If I read such content, I would think "leaping demons" and throw myself on the elders for safety against demons. Second, this is a discussion forum. Let them pay for their own forum to attract new members. Under the present system on JWN, newcomers are exposed to a wide range of belief and disbelief. The traffic numbers here are good. Part of the problem with these off-shoot forums is that so few people post. It is boring. It sounds as though they want to reap Simon's work over the years. Indeed, they appear to want to use everyone here to preach their message. I feel they can do so already. They should not have privileged access.

  I would like to hear their reasoning. This forum is not designed for evangelism. I notice such actions are not popular with most members.
• 

  KateWild

  BTOR-Thanks for the info, so Eric and Tammy are cool. I like them both. Love Kate xx
• 

  tec

  To the OP... this forum has always had believer/non-believer debates. I think one of the longest threads (well, that I know of) is on the quesiton of evil in the world, and it of course became a believer/non-believer thread that ran close to, I think, 200 pages? I could be remembering that wrong, because that seem a bit extreme, lol. In any case, sometimes there are 'flare-ups' and sometimes it is calmer, but those debates are always here. I am really glad to hear that some enjoy them, because often we (the believers and the non-believers) enjoy the debate as well. When they degrade, not so much. But in real life, in conversations with friends/etc... these get heated there as well. Doesn't have to mean that two people are enemies.

  Band on the Run.

  Peace to you. I am not going to address everything in your post, but only that which applies to me and to my faith and my Lord. Others may feel free to skip over this if you do not care. By all means.

  I fear that certain people who call themselves believers who claim that Christ talks to them are recruiting members here. They started their own forum.

  I fear that you are buying into the propaganda and rumors that a handful of people like to spread about... either in the open, or behind the scenes, or on other forums. (which you yourself have firsthand knowlege of) I am not even sure what you mean by 'recruiting members'.

  When they post content here, they should people to respond bc this forum is called a discussion form.

  Not sure what you mean here.

  I did not leave the Witnesses to pat someone who hears voices from Christ on the back.

  No one has ever asked or expected you to do so. It is your own perception, perhaps in part endorsed by what those few others say. It did not come from us.

  My first post here was a bit scary for me.

  No doubt. But the post you are referring to (when you were responded to by Aguest) was not your first post. But at some point, yes, the content of your post was debated. As is ours every day, even by you.

  Someone who hears voices directly from Christ but not Christ.

  Christ is Christ. There is no... Christ but not Christ.

  She gives him another name.

  Christ is not a name, but a title. The name, Jaheshua (pronounced like Y'eshua... so that it is Yaheshua... and there is MUCH backing for Yeshua as being the Hebrew name) is the one he gave her. She did not give him that name.

  Scriptures could not be referenced b/c some scriptures are recognized by this group while others are not valid b/c of the Christ but not Christ's oral directions to the poster.

  Scriptures can ALWAYS be referenced. The problem is... the verses, words, examples from the bible... do not contradict with a living, speaking Christ. Exactly the opposite in fact. They show that Christ IS alive and DOES speak, as is clearly shown in the examples given of people hearing Him after his death and resurrection.

  So scriptures "cannot be referenced" only because the scriptures themselves would disprove any argument that you or another would attempt to make against a living and speaking Christ.

  By all means... reference scriptures if you must.

  I never found that these members posted that this is my belief. No, it was always you cannot have another belief that contradicts my oral directions from whatchamacallit.

  No... that was never posted. You can have any other belief that you want to have. You cannot have any other belief you want to have and have that belief validated, though, by someone who has come to know otherwise. But you never heard from any of us that you cannot have another belief that contradicts with anything we have heard from Christ. What we cannot do is agree with something that you believe - and post - if it is against what we hear from our Lord.

  If you or anyone thinks that is wrong... then you should probably stop speaking against anything the wts believes, that you now know is false, also. Because that is their belief, right?

  As an active Christian, I found these voices disruptive.

  There is only one voice, and this is the same voice that Peter, Paul, John, Cornelius, Phillip, Stephen, Ananias, etc (just to name a few from what IS written)... heard. It is more the response to this truth that makes this disruptive. But what can you do? As you said, this is a discussion forum.

  I must state that Tammy is the exception. She never was aggressive. If I posted information from a standard academic seminary text, I was corrected. B/c the voices heard from Christ yet not Christ were so intensely personal and bizarre, there was nothing to discuss.

  I must state that the content and message that I share is no different than the content and message that the one you butted heads with stated... because we listen to the SAME Lord. (though she tends to hear more) Some might prefer a different tone or personality. Because we all respond to different things, hence there are many different members of the One Body of Christ, each with their own personality, albeit being One in Christ. But the one thing that should matter above and beyond style or tone or personality, or one who is seeking Christ and truth... is TRUTH.

  Peace to you, and ears to hear if YOU wish them, so that you may also hear the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life." Because that water of life, and that call to come to the water of life, is also for you; from the Spirit, from the Bride, and from all who hear.

  tammy
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  tec

  For some reason, the members left b/c people here were not signing up to join them. They wanted a place where no one would challenge them. I visited for a while. The forum became locked to outsiders. Recently, some members of the "believers" forum returned to JWN. The same demands as before are being made. They evidently want Simon to segregate a portion of JWN so no one can challenge them.

  None of this is true.

  I would like to hear their reasoning.

  This statement confuses me, considering your other comments. How would you like to hear such reasoning? From scripture?

  Peace,

  tammy
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  Band on the Run

  Tammy,

  There is a clear record. I don't believe anyone wants to go back to the days of AGuest. It was sheer lunacy. She corrected everyone. It is sad that you allowed her to ruin your reputation. She was brutal.