Video of admitted child molester in Jehovah’s Witnesses has gone viral!

by disfellowshipped1 106 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Q: " Does anyone outside the perimeters of a local congregation recommend a person for appointment as an elder or a ministerial servant? "

    A: Yes, the CO. Also the Elders only recommend, they do not appoint. Their recommendations are based upon explicit instructions from the WTBTS. If no one knows about a crime a prospective Elder or MS commits, then apparently the HOLY SPIRIT is cool with it. So is Jehovah and Jesus.. I mean they let they guy be recommended, then they let the Branch approve him, THEN they neglected to have the HOLY SPIRIT reveal the wrongdoing during the final screening process before the announcement to the " congregation."

    ( I put congregation in quotes because technically speaking the congregation is only " spirit anointed" Christians, or the " body of Christ." It doesn't really include the rank and file, but don't tell them that."

    Prime states, " Had the two elders that knew about this man done the right thing and notified the parents and the Watchtower Society, they would have spared others unnecessary suffering. "

    Am I missing something? Did the Elders not contact the WTBTS?

  • besty
    besty

    keep going Prime - your contribution is incredibly valuable

  • nugget
    nugget

    My understanding of the way elders are appointed is that the elders discuss the brothers who may qualify with the circuit overseer. The Circuit Overseer makes the recommendation to the branch and he can block an appointment if he doesn't feel someone should be appointed. There are also occasions when a body is told that someone will not be appointed because the branch has issued instructions to that effect. So although the elders can express a point of view they do not have the final say.

    appointed men coming from another congregation are appointed by the new congregation but this still has to be approved by the branch.

    This would imply that the congregation may shortlist candidates but the decision rests initially with the CO and then ultimately with the branch. After all if the congregation makes a recommendation that is not approved of by the CO or the Branch the person will not be appointed.

    The main issue is that the appointment is supposed to be directed by the Holy Spirit. How many duds have to be appointed before people start to realise that the Holy spirit is asleep at the wheel?

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Hello Prime,

    I am sure you know it is easy to ruffle feathers around here. I understand your general point, and I believe you are not lying. You are still however incorrect. Besides the actual quotations that you are free to look up in the publication ssited, there is the question of actual autonomy. Are congregations autonomous? There is absolutely zero JW that would ever say that including myself. In fact, the arguement of the religion is that Paul himself was not autonomous, nor were the primitive christian congregations.

    May I ask, have you ever, or do you now serve as an elder? MS? Let me assure you, when I received my final letter that I would no longer be serving.....it didn't come from the local brothers. It came from the branch. Its like saying your supervisor fires you, not the HR dept of your company. Well that is true and not true. Who has the power to fire your supervisor? Ah! The same that have the power to fire you. So this is semantics.

    While I think the WT can only be held so liable in this particular case and in some others, the sheer fact of the matter is that when faced with questions and choices regarding children, many JW's rather than (they feel) risk the reputation of "mother", treat it as a sin and not a crime. I have had numerous people tell me if they were an elder and someone came to them with an allegation of abuse, that he would investigate it, tell the branch, or any number of things; none of which were call the police and report the allegation.

    Most people, would reach out to the police. That is the right thing to do. The inherrent distrust of all things "worldly" and things that may not paint JW's in their spiritual paradise make believe happy place, are looked at suspiciously. Prime I am not saying that it is a systemic problem. But I am also not saying it isn't. There are some bad choices that were made, and bad policies that persist. There should be a duty to report, and to have a higher standard than the world.....not a lower one. Don't you think?

  • Prime
    Prime
    I am a former elder.
    We could only suggest new candidates to the branch office at the visit of the circuit overseer. The opinions of the elders for and against the appointment were summarised by the CO in his report and he added his own comments. The responsibility to apppoint or not is 100% that of the branch office acting on behalf of the governing body.
    I have also been involved in the deletion of an elder. As a body we could only state our reasons why we felt the brother no longer qualified. The branch appointed an external committee of elders to investigate. They listened to the views of the body of elders and those of the elder concerned. They wrote up a summary along with their own opinions and sent them to the branch office. It was only the branch office acting on behalf of the governing body who could make the decision.
    You are a willful liar and an apologist for an organisation who protects pedophiles before it protects children.

    Shame on you.



    If you used to be an elder, that says a lot about you. I'm sorry for whatever decisions you made. You and others are losing sight of my initial point, that the appointment of an elder is on the basis of scriptural guidelines and not a "Divinity degree." The local body of elders discusses the reputation of a man reaching out for an office of overseer with first and foremost, a circuit overseer, like you stated. When a circuit overseer visits a congregation, he spends time with various ones, so not only does he make a recommendation based on the recommendations of others, he makes a recommendation based on personal experience. A circuit overseer's exposure to men reaching out for an office of overseer is very limited, as he annually spends very little time with any congregation. I'm 40 and was raised in the organization. I do know that the congregation is the major factor in the appointment or removal of an elder. There's nothing you can say to me that will change that.

    You should be commending me for not believing everything the media tells you without doing your own homework. The media did a hatchet job on James Mccabe's interview, cheery picked certain statements and correlated his statements with their own dialogue. The media often crafts and distorts stories to sensationalize certain things to satisfy the appetite of voyeurs. Their objective is for the segment to go “viral.” Ratings is how they stay in business.

    The bottom line, is the Watchtower Society knew nothing about Gonzalo Campos until one of the victim's family wrote the Watchtower Society. This fact is a matter of public records. Conveniently, the media doesn't tell you that. I looked into this case a year ago and found it to be very disturbing and discouraging. I blamed the persons who were culpable, those who had knowledge of this man. It's rare that something like this slips through the cracks and goes undetected by others the way it did in this case, so hopefully, I don't have to see this again.

    "We do not condone or protect child molesters. Our elders expel unrepentant sinners who commit this crime. (1 Corinthians 5:13) In the United States, over 80,000 elders currently serve in over 12,300 congregations. (Acts 20:28) During the last 100 years, only eleven elders have been sued for child abuse in thirteen lawsuits filed in the United States. In seven of these lawsuits against the elders, accusations against the Watchtower Society itself were dismissed by the courts."

    As of 2012, this makes seven. I did some IT work for an insurance company sometime back and had access to many documents. Many times, the misdeeds of a very few can cost an organization dearly when it comes to litigation. That's just the way the system works. If you're going to blame innocent persons the crimes of another when they're really not responsible, that's a crime in itself. Shame on you. It's obvious you and others are very capable of such a thing. It doesn't bother me because you're just an impersonal cyberghost. If you do have family that are JWs, you can't blame them if they choose not to associate with you. I'm no longer enjoying these conversations, so I'm not wasting anymore time here. This is certainly not constructive or beneficial.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Appointment of elders aren't really based on scriptural guidelines...it's basically, what is their hourly average each month? How many return visits do they do? Do they go out on Sundays? And a list of other things not found in 1 Timothy or Titus.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Prime: the society teaches that the holy spirit appoints elders and they are only confirming the appointment.

    Are you saying:

    a) that is a complete load of bull, it's really a bunch or guys deciding based on popularity

    b) it is true but god's spirit is easily fooled or makes mistakes, is maybe behind the times

    c) it is true but they don't listen to the spirit and decide things for themselves

    It's either God's organisation and spirit directed in which case I think the spirit is a complete jackass or else they don't follow it or it's not God's organization and the people just make things up.

    Either way, why would anyone follow them. What do they represent other than corruption? The only 'perfection' is their ability to cover their own asses.

  • Simon
    Simon
    I'm no longer enjoying these conversations, so I'm not wasting anymore time here. This is certainly not constructive or beneficial.

    i.e. you can't defend the indefensible.

    Wouldn't you think it would and should be possible to defend Gods Organization when the people running it are apparently guided directly by him?

    Oh wait, you don't think ... is it possible ... could it be ... they were just making the whole thing up?! I mean, we only have their word on it don't we!

    Enjoy the rest of your life following them ...

  • cofty
    cofty
    If you do have family that are JWs, you can't blame them if they choose not to associate with you

    What more evidence does anybody need that the cult turns people into ethical zombies?

    During your short stay on JWN your apologetics of protecting pedophiles and of shunning has done more to discredit your cult than the rest of us combined.

  • ablebodiedman
    ablebodiedman

    Matthew 7:15-20

    15 "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

    Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

    Really!

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