Thanks Zed, that was a clearifying post.
The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis
by zed is dead 298 Replies latest members private
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Marvin Shilmer
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“If this man was already on their radar and it was reported to them that he was a member of an apostate FB group and they question him and he admits to looking into the WT's past and studying you can't see some overactive elders ‘protecting the flock?’”
Researching and studying Watchtower’s history is not something punishable by expulsion under Watchtower policies. I’ve known some crack-pot elders. But I’ve never known any who would disfellowship a JW for that.
If, as is reported, John Doe JW denied membership in an apostate group then the burden of evidence falls to a judicial committee to prove such a membership did exist. Two witnesses testifying they saw John Doe JW’s name on an online membership list is not evidence that John Doe JW was a member of that online community. It’s only evidence his name was on a list or purported members. Watchtower training that’s given over and over again ad nausem to its elders would preclude disfellowshipping on this ground.
That said, assuming an outcome of disfellowshipping, there is more to the story than is presented because what is presented offers no reason or basis for expelling John Doe JW.
Marvin Shilmer
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UnConfused
You are just trying to say that it's not true OR that it's not Cedars, Julia Barrick Douglas's, Dick Kelly's or AAWA's fault by saying that the elders had not right to act that way.
Actually I think you are trying to say both.
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zed is dead
Marvin is still the same "Chatty Cathy" doll that pulls his own string!
How is Julia doing? Still outing people?
zed
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Marvin Shilmer
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“I have to go to work shortly, but would like to comment on "bodies of work."
“Marvin does not understand me. That is perfectly fine, in fact I like it that way.
“He said that maybe he would understand me better if we had a real life discussion. I have no desire to have that discussion based on HIS body of work.
“He was the chief obfuscator on behalf of defending the management of the organization behind the Facebook fiasco - WHILE IT WAS STILL OUTING PEOPLE.
“This was of course after the President of that group left JWN in a tantrum, because of Simon and others trying to sincerely help him see the potential dangers of actions his group had taken, and how to immediately rectify it by shutting down the offensive site.
“Someone gave me a very accurate synopsis of Marvin's body of work at that time. For Marvin's simple wired brain, it is a "Cliff's Notes" of his participation in these topics.
“‘Marvin's been in bed with the AAWA since the beginning. Dick Kelley was most definitely the third party Marvin was speaking of when he said he didn't contact Cedars directly. So we have the two remaining incorporating officers in contact with him. I was wondering why he was so into debunking the pseudonym controversy. As it turns out he was merely parroting Dick, who as the incorporator and legal/accounting officer would stand the most to lose should it ever go to court. Since Dick's a huge fan of Marvin's 'work' and gave him a special shout-out in his AAWA introductory post, Marvin felt he had to repay the favour. Marvin also stands to gain should the AAWA start distributing his material. Don't buy the 'interested third party who's trying to settle the dispute' nonsense that Marvin keeps spewing.’
“How is that for a "body of work?" You are not a giant that I want to stand on the shoulders of!
“zed
“P.S. Marvin also "friended" Julia Barrick Douglas on Facebook, after being informed of her outing SST and others.”
Wow.
zed you’re carrying around a huge chip on your shoulder.
With certainty I can say you’re gullible for believing what you repeat above. But then, we each get to believe what we want. That’s the way it should be.
Friending Julia Douglas is supposed to mean what? That I’m bad? What? I guess you can think of only a very narrow range of reasons for friending someone on Facebook. Right?
I’d say you’re pretty good at minding other people’s business. As for your body of work: It’s beginning to take shape.
If I can ever help let me know. I hold nothing against you and have never understood your angst toward me.
Marvin Shilmer
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Marvin Shilmer
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“You are just trying to say that it's not true OR that it's not Cedars, Julia Barrick Douglas's, Dick Kelly's or AAWA's fault by saying that the elders had not right to act that way.”
No.
I’m only saying what I’ve said. The presentation sounds contrived for reasons I shared. What I’ve said is no more, and it’s not intended to say more.
Whether John Doe JW’s presentation is contrived or not does not change the fact that all those named above hold responsibility for what happened with that association’s roll out. Mistakes were made. By reports, people were hurt. By admission, reaction was far slower than it should have been. These things have not changed.
Marvin Shilmer
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zed is dead
Marvin,
You pompous windbag! As a supposed stickler for detail, please refer to Sic Semper Tyrannis' by his name, or SST for short. Do not disrespect him or his plight by using the offensive term "John Doe JW." You apparently are the one with a chip on YOUR shoulder!
zed
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UnConfused
"Whether John Doe JW’s presentation is contrived or not does not change the fact that all those named above hold responsibility for what happened with that association’s roll out. Mistakes were made. By reports, people were hurt. By admission, reaction was far slower than it should have been. These things have not changed."
Then what is your point of pointing out that the account seems contrived then Marvin? What is your point?
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OnTheWayOut
Marvin, I was going to take the time to quote mine and show you just what's wrong here and why I respond to you as I do, but it's such a waste of time and energy.
It's all there. You go on and on about an issue you didn't even understand, and yet you insist on more information to understand a person or an issue.
You tell us on page 5 here that, in your opinion and/or experience, SST should not have been df'ed. You basically say the whole thing is a lie or missing information that would take BBXB off the hook and blame SST himself.
People can see the essence of truth in the OP for themselves. Other ex-JW's know that the rules can get in the way for JW elders with an agenda, and sometimes they ignore them.
Lastly, how can you call anyone "gullible" if you didn't even understand the outing issue or how things don't always go down at judicial committees according to the guidelines and training? Let me know when you have read my body of works so you can stop saying you don't understand.
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Marvin Shilmer
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“You pompous windbag! As a supposed stickler for detail, please refer to Sic Semper Tyrannis' by his name, or SST for short. Do not disrespect him or his plight by using the offensive term "John Doe JW."
Zed,
Respectfully, there is an innocent reason why I used John Doe JW.
Regardless, I regret offending you or anyone else.
Honestly, I don’t know whether I should believe the story of SST’s judicial committee or not. So far, it looks contrived for reasons shared above in this discussion. If the story is true there is an enthymeme.
Marvin Shilmer