by Sic Semper Tyrannis 423 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Different people are in different places in terms of relationships and how friends and family ties need to be maintained etc...
I don't think anyone can make judgements on how others "should" handle their own life when it comes to leaving, everyone has unique circumstances and are the only ones that should be allowed to make those choices.
Another group that takes "outing" very seriously is the LGBT community. Though there are those who think that everyone should "out" their sexuality, it is very uncool to out someone before they are ready. It is up to each individual to prepare for the consequences in their own way. This should not be taken away from them.
Tylin; So you prefer to duck and hide, cloak and dagger? Does that mean, you are deceiving yourself, living a lie? how does that make one feel? Knowing that the shit they are being fed is all lies, yet to maintain family/friends they betray their own selves? In the end, does it even work out? For some yes, but I have seen many more still lose the war, while they attempt to fight the battle...
...because I can show you story after story after story on here and elsewhere, where people are fading for YEARS and are as miserable as they were on day one! ...and usually in the end they lose something or someone, they were trying to avoid for all those years...
SIC TEMPER- My deepest sympathies towards you with this horrific situation you are facing. If AAWA had rectified this situation immediately by shutting down it's site when they first learned of the exposure of ex-JW's - you wouldn't be facing this situation. Please know that we here on JWN are here for you and will stand by you through your trials. PM me if you need a friend to talk to on the phone.
MESSAGE TO CEDARS : As Simon so correctly mentioned , are you understanding the seriousness and gravity of what you allowed to happen on your AAWA site YET ? I'm of the opinion that you value your POSITION and or CONTROL over exposing WT Society scandals and doctrines over any true empathy or compassion towards fading, exiting, or non-attending JW's who are trying to maintain connections to JW family members still. You may feel that the " means whereby " that you choose to expose WT Society indiscretions doesn't matter- but it does. You can't just throw the oars into the water then sail over a waterfall yanking over a 1,000 innocent ex or fading JW's with you putting them at risk of either - losing relationships with JW wives, husbands, children, or JW friends, or possibly losing financial inheritances along the way if a fading JW gets outed by this exposure.
But THAT is what you've created with the possibility of happening and IS happening right before our eyes, yet you keep shifting the blame onto Simon, JWN, or any OTHER scapegoat who will enable you to refuse to accept responsibility for this horrific exposure of fading and ex-JW's to their still-in JW relatives and friends ! You STILL refuse to answer or express the reason you refused to shut down the site to preserve confidentiality of these exposed people.
Your lack of a legitimate explanation tells us all we need to know about your ambitions, ego, and arrogance preventing you from showing true human compassion, empathy, and even normal concern for what your exposure of these people is creating in the havoc and nightmares that many may potentially face and ARE facing as I write this right now. I guess it's more important to expose the WT Society and send innocent people over a potential life altering waterfall than it is to rewind, start from scratch with a safer option in order to accomplish your agenda ? It's obvious that people being exposed may have been a sacrifice that you don't mind occuring in order to accomplish your agenda ? Inquiring minds would like to know, but I feel I've figured it out already. Truly tragic that you'd sacrifice peoples privacy for your anti-WT agenda
jgnat " The problem is bad enough without muddying the waters."
mind blown -Seriously? And I'm starting to wonder if there's a conflict of interest with those who are associated with AAWA who are mods still making light of the situation......
Jookbeard: Sinis
not many escape as easily as you.
I can tell you, it was not easy, nor without "blood shed". It was nasty. However, given that, I managed to save my marriage, and by my actions, it eventually lead to the most of my family leaving the JW's. I stuck by my guns, and they became curious, which eventually lead to them doing there own research. Sometimes, when you come out smelling like flowers after crawling through a mile of shit...
Everyone is free to do their own thing. Perhaps my use of "pussy" was too much for most, but in essence, why prolong the inevitable? Does anyone really think they can walk away turd free from the WTS? Most cannot...
It's true that all faders or "fence riders" should be totally aware of the security risk of facebook, but the actuality is that many don't. Those are the type of people who are hurt by an inadvertant "outing" on their page of a "like" or having the page show up as one they joined, when they had no idea of this happening.
I agree that this AAWA group should have a warning on the page about the risks of personal information being shown, since AAWA has NO CONTROL over facebook or the continual changes they keep making and causing security risks, for everyone.( though the JuanV post early on suggested a concensus to "open" the page for a while... but that seems to be very confused with that posting and related ones not being addressed)
I also agree that innitially AAWA should have messaged everyone in the group about being added, deleted the entire group then reopened it and accepting those who ask to join. This specifically, along with a warning about potential personal information that is shared by facebook that is out of AAWA's control.
Those who join, must do so with knowledge of the risks. Then AAWA is not responsible for anything happening with regards to the facebook accounts.
As is stands now, there are people who were unknowingly added, and it is irrelevant WHO added them. All that is relevant is that those people added didn't KNOW about it at the time and some may still be in there. With the notorius habit of facebook changing security settings all the time, it is a timebomb just waiting to explode.
It saddens me so much since AAWA is so needed. Plus, some people's personal lives are now at risk of being unwittingly "outed".
<<<< Tylin; So you prefer to duck and hide, cloak and dagger? Does that mean, you are deceiving yourself, living a lie? how does that make one feel? Knowing that the shit they are being fed is all lies, yet to maintain family/friends they betray their own selves? In the end, does it even work out? For some yes, but I have seen many more still lose the war, while they attempt to fight the battle..-- Sinis>>>>
<<<< Who are you to decide when is the right time for someone to come out as a fader. -- Angharad>>>>
Angharad hits the nail on its head. Sinis, while your decisions may be right for you, you have no moral authority to impose your own views on this issue on others. Everyone has different circumstances, and your comments about faders here are out of line.
sinis said:
...because I can show you story after story after story on here and elsewhere, where people are fading for YEARS and are as miserable as they were on day one! ...and usually in the end they lose something or someone, they were trying to avoid for all those years...
And I personally know of many that are "fading/faded" for years that are happy and no longer attend meetings but still get to talk to their families.
I will include myself in this. Not DF'd or DA'd.
Some of my family don't have as much to say to me since I haven't attended meetings in years. But I guess that is understandable since we don't have as much in common anymore. Their life revolves around the WT and telling/talking about it, whereas my life revolves around enjoying each day to its fullest. We still extend courtesy to each other but if they start bringing up the religious aspect I either change the topic or say I'm happy for you and hope you can be happy for me.
But I will point out that if my circumstances were different and didn't have so many family still in, and it was just me ....I would have said "GOOD-BYE" to them long ago and could care less then if they DF me or not.
So I can see it both ways. For those without as much to lose it probably is better to cut the cord (DA/DF) but for those with so much more at stake I'd say the "inactive Fader" way might be the more prudent choice. But each will have to decide on their own circumstances.
Tylin; So you prefer to duck and hide, cloak and dagger? Does that mean, you are deceiving yourself, living a lie? how does that make one feel? Knowing that the shit they are being fed is all lies, yet to maintain family/friends they betray their own selves? In the end, does it even work out? For some yes, but I have seen many more still lose the war, while they attempt to fight the battle...
...because I can show you story after story after story on here and elsewhere, where people are fading for YEARS and are as miserable as they were on day one! ...and usually in the end they lose something or someone, they were trying to avoid for all those years...
Sinis, I faded for 13 years. No I did not prefer to duck and hide and yes I was living a lie. I was also living a lie as an active JW for 29 years before my fade. It feels shitty doing a fade.
In the end it can work out. My children matured during my fade and because of my patience I was able to rescue them as well from the cult knowing I'd have a battle with JW mom. I have found a loving relationship with a beautiful woman after going through a 3 year nasty divorce. She only started her fade a few years ago. If I would already have been long gone I would have missed out on my relationship with her. I have maintained business relationships with JWs, I have maintained friendships with JWs I've known since childhood. I have maintained relationships with Elders and MS who forward me information that is helpful. I have regained frienships with JWs that were DFd.
There is much to be said for fading in my opinion.
Dagney, It sounds like you're talking about the FB "Fan Page". They are the only pages that have the "like" feature...button, and yes, if it's been "liked" you will see the news feed on your profile and everyone else will see you "liked" that page on the news feed.