If Jehovah Can Read Hearts Then WHY

by BlindersOff1 301 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • mP

    ,mP -> TEC:

    I admire you faith in replying to everyone thats great. I hope it gives you solititude. Can you do me a favour and add labels so its easy to see who said what. Someting like what i try and do.


    God says:

    "This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him." Luke 9:35

    Christ says:

    "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have seen Him. " John 14:6,7

    "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." John 14:9

    "The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. " John 14:10


    WHy should i believe "God" said this. A lot of people claim god speaks to them. All your quotes basically say the same thing. Listen to Jesus.

    Well im listening to Jesus and im worried that he failed to mention many evils inflicted against the week in our society. Ive already stated many times jesus did not condemn slavery nor pedophilia, nor racism, nor oppression of women and many things. The simple answer is he didnt because Jews of that time thought along those lines. Its that simple.

    How could Jesus fail to see any of those things ? How could this god fail to see or predict the future and realise it would be smart and avoid much pain to spend a few lines of condemning these evils ?


    "You have heard it said, love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you; love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven." Matt 43:45


    Problem is almost nobody listened to Jesus for the remainder of the NT. THe apostles refused to even eat, talk to gentiles etc for much of the NT until much later. Somehow they seem to have formed a very different opnion to the one you "read" from that text. THis same idea can be found in the 10Commandments, where it says not to steal, but then the next page the jews kill and steal from their pagan neighbours. THe problem is of course the 10C only apply to equals their fellow jews. We see the same in the American constitution, where all men are created equal, but the problem is in 150 years ago everybody knew the "men" did not include blacks.

    When you appreciate these cultural meanings of the words and see from the text and history that they did follow their beliefs faithfully you get teh true meaning. Problem is you focus on todays meanings and fail to see they did understand using their backwards cultural thoughts.

    If you want examples of what i said i will be happy to reply with the scriptures. You will then see that what i post easily outnumbers what you post.

  • tec

    Well, if God wanted people to listen to the Jesus, he could say so himself in, say, the OT, before Jesus was born. If I wanted people to listen to my son, I wouldn't have him and his buddies go around telling people to listen to him if they want to know what I think, I would say it and legitimize him.

    Well he did. There were prophecies about the Messiah. Some recognized Him, some did not.

    No, you are saying if people want to know God, listen to someone else. That doesn't make sense.

    If you want to know God, then listen TO God, and look at His Son.

    Like I said, lots of prophecies concerning the Messiah, and that people were supposed to listen to Him, when He came.

    So that IS what God said to do. By looking at the Son, you ARE listening to God.

    Christ is the mediator between man and God.

    Like I said, why don't you try? If you have tried every way other than what God has said, then why not put some faith in Him, and do as He said?



  • mP


    "I (YHWH) do not change." Malachi 3:6


    IF god does not change then why does his laws change ? The truth is Jesus said the Torah was perfect and will never change in Mat 5.

    5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    He never says here or anywhere that the old law is to be forgotten ? He may summarise parts of it, but he never wipes it away or orders it to be ignored, like what you and every other xian does, when they ignor ethe Sabbath. I will be happy to show other examples if required.], but really the text is so clear it cannot be refuted.

    Feel free to reply but include scriptures with quotes from Jesus. im pretty confident you will refuse this challenge because lets face it you cant reply.

  • mP

    Well he did. There were prophecies about the Messiah. Some recognized Him, some did not.


    Nearly all of these are bogus. If you want to start a separate post we can discuss but a few there. I think you know me i always try and reply.

    I have started a new thread for this, i welcome your reply.



  • EntirelyPossible

    Well he did. There were prophecies about the Messiah. Some recognized Him, some did not.

    He didn't do what those prophecies said the messiah would.

    If you want to know God, then listen TO God, and look at His Son.

    You haven't shown where he said to listen to Jesus instead of him.

  • tec

    Depends on your understanding, EP. I see that He did exactly as was foretold.



  • mP

    TEC: Follow the link please.

    So why are xians so dishonest and inventing virgin birth and born in Bethlehem prophecies ? WJhy invent utter lies that when its so obvious they are wrong and plain out lying

  • mP


    If you want to know God, then listen TO God, and look at His Son.


    You haven't shown where he said to listen to Jesus instead of him.


    Idid listen to Jesus, and he doesnt give a shite about slaves, women, children etc. Thats the problem!

  • EntirelyPossible

    Depends on your understanding, EP. I see that He did exactly as was foretold.

    He ruled Israel and defeated it's enemies?

  • AGuest
    Well God is perfect,

    True. Do you know HOW that is? It's not as man... perhaps including you... think it is. We gauge perfection by our own limitations: in what we know/understand... and what we can do. God's perfection is not subject to our limitations. His perfection has no limits save one. Do you know what it is?

    why would he lower his standards to such a monster like Jephthah.

    See, that is where you miss the point of the account. He DIDN'T lower His standards at all. To the contrary, He upheld them. HIS standard is let your yes MEAN yes... and your no, no. That you PAY what you VOW. Which is why we should not swear... because you could be held to it. Which is why a marriage VOW is so important to Him. Jephthah hastily made a vow. The MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, held him to it. Could it have been rescinded? Yes. All Jephthah had to do as ask. Did you notice... he didn't? Why not? Again, HIS motive wasn't pure to begin with. That same "heart" then, that caused him to MAKE his hasty vow (wanting revenge upon his brothers) is what also prevented him for asking for mercy for his daughter. I'm thinking you didn't read the account... but are still only going on that snippet part that the WTBTS taught was "about"... something it was not.

    I mean who rewards someone willing to sacrifice his chlidren ?

    Rewards? What reward? Read the account - the Ammonites were already to fall to Jephthah. JAH had been with him and delivered everyone into his hand. But then Jephthah made an error: rather than continuing on in FAITH... he let is bad motive take over. And so he made a rash vow... that HE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO MAKE. But... what if he FAILED, what if he DIDN'T roust those dang Ammonites? Well, then, he would lose his high place among his brothers. No, he needed that extra "blessing"... just to be sure. So... he made a vow. To his and his own daughter's detriment.

    How is God any different from Hitler or any other monster like that ?

    Well, if you can't figure that out, I'm not sure I can explain it to you. But since you invoked, first, tell us, please, how are those who abort their own children daily any different than Hitler... or worse, Jephthah? Are you calling them evil and taking them to task, as well? Because it is their own children they are sacrificing... for whatever reason... right?

    Please dont lecture me about what Jephthah wanted, i think we all know that already. Address the morality and example displayed by God.

    Tell you what: let's address the morality and example by mankind today. We don't even have to go back to Hitler. Let's do that as well as discuss the morality and example displayed by God (although, you do know that the MOST Holy One of Israel is not subject to our opinions or standards as to morality, right, but it's we who are subject to His? I mean, you drive... do you not? Do/would you let your 10 year old drive? Why not? But YOU do it...).

    Im sorry you have failed to demonstrate how you are a slave.

    Well, okay, by your definition, perhaps.

    Its dishonest to call yourself a slave of Christ when you are not a slave of him or anybody.

    Now how would YOU know whose slave I am or am not? I could be my next door neighbor's slave... and you wouldn't know at all. So, your comment is... what? And it's not dishonest to call myself ANYTHING I believe or have dedicated myself to be... save those things that require, say, licensing by man. I wasn't aware, though, that I had to have a permit, certification, or license to make myself another's slave.

    A slave as i said before works for free most days for their master.

    Well, that's not exactly accurate. Modernly, that's true, but only seen from that viewpoint due to the institution of U.S. slavery. Even so, I didn't disagree with you. My work for him is done for free... to the extent I don't receive currency. I absolutely do receive gold... and silver... but I'm not sure you would understand how and in what manner.

    I will give you a chance to say otherwise but i seriously doubt you do anything like that.

    You would be right. Because I wouldn't say otherwise. I absolutely do work for free... at least, how you would define free. I receive no wage or currency of THIS world. Which is what is meant by giving free of what I received free. I didn't pay for it, so I can't charge for it. Unfortunately, there are many... many... MANY in the world who would and DO charge you (they call it "donations," and "contributions" and "tithing", and things like that). They charge YOU... while selling you "knock-offs", fakes. Because they themselves have never received.

    Its dishonest to call yourself a healer, when you cant heal, or a believer if yo dont believe.

    I agree.

    People cant give themselves labels, they earn that label with actions. Unless you actually are a slave, then its a downright lie to call yoruself one.

    I am actually a slave. Truly. Honestly, I am not lying to you. I am a slave of the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... and thus a servant of those who belong to him, starting with the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with her. And, yes, that would include fleshly Jews as well as those of the other 10 tribes. Now, I don't dictate my WORK; that comes from my Lord.

    Its also disrespectful to all the slaves in mankinds history who died, were raped and lived terrible lives to trivialise their hurt and sorrow by using their unfortunate forced labour the way you do.

    You mean my ancestors? I am a descendant of US slaves, dear one, just 3 generations removed. I am also a descendant of Egyptian slaves, Israel, by means of Benjamin (which is the tribe I am from). So, while I understand that there are some who take issue to the word... and anyone who uses it in any form... I know there are some who know what I mean and where I'm coming from. Just like I understand that there are some who take issue to the new form of the "n" word that is used today... while some know what those who use it mean and where they're coming from. That YOU don't understand... isn't going to keep me up nights. Sorry, but that is the truth - I am not seeking your approval as to what words I use to describe/identify myself. Sorry.

    You are not a slave of anyone , dont pretend you are.

    Please, don't [try to] tell me what to call myself. I am a grown woman, maybe even with children older than you... and will call/identify myself as I choose. I am not YOUR slave for you to do so.

    Im sorry the story says that Jehovah rewards people who willing sacrifice their children.

    I am sorry that that's what you take from the account.

    Somehow jehovah helps Jepthah, but never rebukes him for his terrible offer. Jehovah also never tells Jepthah to forget about the sacrifice.

    Now, how in the world do you know THAT?? Because it's not included in the account? How do you know it never was? You don't know how this matter turns out for Jephthah.

    Either Jehovah is blind or is pure evil.

    "Jehovah", perhaps. As far as I know, no such person exists. As for the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... au contrare: He is neither blind nor evil. I find it utterly fascinating, however, that it is He with whom you take issue here... He that never asked Jephthah to make a vow, a vow as to his daughter, OR to carry it out. Where, pray tell, is your indictment of JEPHTHAH... the man who MADE the vow AND carried it out? Why are you not screaming about how "blind" and "evil" HE is (Shaking head) Earthling man... NEVER able to look at "himself"... ALWAYS pointing the finger...

    What is even sadder is that Jepthah knew Jehovah likes human sacrifice

    Wait, who said THAT?? Where in the WORLD did you get that God LIKED/LIKES human sacrifice?? NO ONE likes human sacrifice more than humans themselves! And THAT is a proven, recorded FACT.

    and that giving life like that was the best way to get favour.

    Jephthah already had favor. Please... at least read the account? I mean, so you at least LOOK like you know what you're talking about?

    What kind of monster is this Jehovah ?

    "Jehovah"? Well, considering how many have died in that name, just in relation to, say, the WTBTS... I would say a heinous one.

    Where does it say this in the OT ?

    Goodness, you apparently haven't read much of the Law, have you? Leviticus 19: 17, 18

    Sorry you are a false prophet inserting text into the OT.

    Seriously, you are the one who is mistaken here. As to me and as to what's in the OT. But you didn't really even have to look to the OT to know. As dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you!), you only needed to look to Christ. That One is not only the image of God (and thus, the means by which we can see God), but HE fulfilled the Law, not breaking a single one. So, if HE taught us to love our brother... and to even forgive our enemies... indeed so as to be "PERFECT"... then surely there would have had to be something in the Law about that. Yes? Yes. Mercy... was one of the "weightier" matters of the Law, dear mp.

    In case you didnt know thats a sin punishable by death, scripture says so.

    No, actually, the scritpure doesn't say so. NO scripture says so. There are the words of my Lord which John received when given the revelation and recorded for us, that is anyone changed the words of that revelation... the plagues IN that revelation would be added to them. But nothing it being a sin punishable by death.

    You better pray hard or live in a tunnel in case Jehovah gets angry.

    First, I am not afraid of an entity that doesn't exist. And, again, as far as I know there is no "Jehovah." Second, I am not afraid of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... because He is not a being to BE feared... but to be loved. Third, although I have received the promised holy spirit which cleansed me from my errors up to that point... I also partake of my Lord's blood daily... and so have any subsequent errors that make "covered" on that basis as well. AS WELL AS... I always forgive those who sin against ME (although it's not easy, so sometimes I have to beg my Lord to MAKE me forgive someone)... so I don't worry about my own sins being held against me. Although there may be some who consider me an enemy... I try to move past feeling like that about anyone as quickly as I can. Praying for them helps me do this; again, though, when it's difficult, I beg my Lord to make me do it.

    The MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... is love, dear one. And grants His love, by means of His spirit, to those asking it. And perfect love... which is love that includes even one's enemies... casts ALL fear... outside. So no fear here, my dear.

    Please stop wishing blessings on me.

    Ummmmm... I have not wished a single blessing on you, ever. I have offered you a greeting of peace... which is what my Lord has directed me to do. However, he did say that whatever peaced I wished on others that they refused/could not receive would come back on me, so... no problem. I did not wish it here... nor will I ever again, unless you change YOUR mind.

    Im not a superstituous idiot who actually thinks those words will "help me".

    (Smile) They are not FOR you, dear one: they are FOR me: (1) in obedience to my Lord's direction; (2) so that I am doing to you what I would want you to do to me; and (3) to remind me that neither you... or any other "sheep" belong to ME, but to another. I am only showing regard for another's (my Lord's) belongings. And you do belong to him, indirectly. Because he purchased YOUR life, too, when he gave his. Whether you recognize, agree with, or receive that "sacrifice."

    I mean seriously the crator of the universe needs these words to help someone.

    Crator... oh, Creator? He doesn't need these words, either. Again, no worries - won't happen again.

    Either thats extremely sad or hes a blind idiot who needs help.

    It's neither, but I understand if you don't understand that.

    Just be truthful and stop making stuff up

    I have been utterly truthful here. And particularly with you. Probably more than you've ever experienced before, and certainly with regard to these matters.

    using your xian standards of truth telling and actually quote the bible when you say God wants this or teaches that.

    Me? Actually quote the Bible? You're kidding, right? Goodness, I wish you folks would make up your mind: stop quoting the bible... quote the bible... stop quoting the bible... quote the bible. You're either kidding... or you're pretty new here... or you haven't read many of my posts. May I suggest you do the latter and perhaps stop doing is some others here do from time to time and that is jump to all kinds of erroneous conclusions about things and people they know nothing about... simply because a few others relatively knew people scream and holler as if THEY know? 'Cause they don't, either.

    Without a quote its bullshit.

    Ah, yes, the little children. Any of you "stop using the bible" folks out there wanna take this comment on? Because I'm actually really tired of the whole back and forth on it, personally. And so since I obviously can't please either campe of you "children" (the ones who cry for a dirge, but don't mourn when you give them one... OR the ones who call for some flute playing but refuse to dance when they hear).

    A slave of Christ,


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