Perhaps you might want to explain why your OP sounds so judgemental of those who are fading?
EMOTION
Maybe you are lacking in that. it's callled EMPATHY
sheesh!
I am signing off....
by Cagefighter 98 Replies latest jw friends
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talesin
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cofty
you had an EXTREME reaction, and accused me of martyrhood - Talesin
Talesin this is way off topic but just for the record the thread was started 5 months ago by Lore who asked if anybody would sacrifice their life in two scenarios; one that would save one life and another that involved agreeing to die so your organs could be given to 10 others. You answered "Yes".
My response or "scornful reply" according to you, was...
Not a chance and neither should anybody else. I am stunned by Talesin's reply. Morality is not a matter of arithmetic.
That was my only contribution to the thread.
If you think that is an "EXTREME reaction" and that I accused you of martyrhood your ability to engage in rational discussion is worse than I thought.
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FlyingHighNow
Do a survey. Many of us have been out for decades and haven't touched a toe to a KH parking lot in years.
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elderelite
I am not sure if it's me or you all, but this board seems to be full of more people trying to stay in the org rather than leave it. I have no interest keeping that kind of company.
as one of the people he seems to want to avoid, i find this utterly and positively rib tickling funny. lets analyze for a moment....
"i am not sure if its me or you all" ... so based on that are we to conclude that EVERYONE on the board gets lumped into the same category? do "we all" come from the same place, share the same ideas and post identically all day all the time? are we all clones? somehow poor cage fighter has determined that EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this board is IDENTICAL, but somehow HE is different. vastly different! but yet, somehow he cant actually figure out if its really him or if its "us". tragic. Perhaps you should hang around and figure out if its "you" or "us". or not.. whatever.
Then we get... "but this board seems to be full of more people trying to stay in the org rather than leave it" . hmmmmmmmmm....... There's a lot that could be said about this, but lets start with the false premise that poor cagefighter seems to be laboring under. Somehow, someway he seems to have gotten the idea that this place is specifically designed or designated for people who are leaving or have left the organization, or that its designed to encourage people to leave and that if you arnt running out the door this SECOND EXACTLY that you have violated some sort of rule, written or unwritten. That somehow you have betrayed a sacred trust, HIS trust, in not leaving as you had promised. Clearly poor cagefigher wasnt paying attention when he typed the URL for this board. Its called "[desert god] witness.net." The very URL implies that being here means you are a desert god witness. The reality is that most here have left the org, but its not a violation of the TOS that some havent. Im not sure where cage got lost on that particular point, but we all get lost sometimes. I also find it ironic that, despite the implications of the boards name, it seems that 98% of the people here ARE NOT ACTIVE witness, and yet, cage draws the exact opposite conclusion. So lets summarize... we have a boards who's name implies that it should be for active desert god witness, when in reality most are not, but poor cage fighter has gotten confused and thinks the board is for non witness but is somehow infected with active JW's. im not sure where poor cage went through the looking glass or passed through to Bizzaro world, but maybe he can find his way back to reality at some point. Then perhaps he will reassess the "you all" and "me" thing...
Then we get this Gem to round it out " I have no interest keeping that kind of company." LOL!!! wow. If ever there was pot/kettle situation this is it. Im not entirely sure what hes afraid of in "keeping that kind of company". Maybe hes been reading 1 cor 15:33 and feels "you all" are bad association. Maybe hes worried about getting some of that prevalent Pro Witness funk on him that seems to be rampant here. Im not really sure what kind of company he intends to keep so i am a little confused again. After all, the overwhelming spirit here is anti org, hell even the elders (cough cough) that frequent the board would tell any who ask to stay the hell away, so maybe cagefighter intends to go back to the kingdom hall and now feels "you all" are bad association. in any case, it seems positively.... well..... witness like to run away from mere words and ideas that you feel can infect you. Thats all this boards is. THoughts and ideas in cyber space. last i checked there was no actual company to keep here. I cant touch or feel (sadly) any of you, there is no danger of real life funk transferring from one person to another... so to run away and make weird proclamations about the company being kept is... well... weird.
In conclusion, i want to be offended. I think thats what cagefighter wants to happen.... but its all so disjointed and incoherent that i cant actually find anything that offends me. I mean i really really want to even care, just a little... but.... well..... im just not sure what the hell the point was in the first place. its just a random accusation of some imaginary sin thats supposed to be noteworthy to someone other than cage and then he says he leaves from a place that had no real physical hold on him to make him stay anyway. its all rather pointless (as is my analysis). I mean it didnt even have any particular anger or venom to take in.. its just cold passionless assumption, statement , mild intended insult, goodbye. For god sake man, the dubbies do exactly that when they DF someone. "this is to inform the congregation that SO and SO is no longer a *desert god* witness". YOu are still a dubbie!
I look forward to rebuttal when you return. and you will return. "you all" always do.
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talesin
Cofty,,, I am heartily sick of your nastiness to god-believers, and your scornful attitude towards same.
In the thread I highlighted, yes, your reaction was clear. You seem to have a lack of empathy, and little desire to accept other people's feelings.Let's analyze your comment ...
I am stunned by Talesin's reply. Morality is not a matter of arithmetic.
My reply had NOTHING to do with arithmetic. It had to do with the fact that, (1) I have no children (2) I am in constant and severe pain (3) I have no family to mourn me (4) I have friends who are dying with cancer, who have children, and a partner who would lose them (5) I may never walk, nor work, again.
I am not a martyr,,, I am a REALIST. I know that I would be missed, yes, but my life is not essential to anyone else's well-being. Your comment was such, that is was clear,,, you NEGATED my feelings, and for that, you have NO RIGHT.
You don't hear me whinging and whining about my situation. I take one day at at time, and focus on being supportive to others, because that is, to me, the higher purpose for me being on this planet. If you choose to take your pain, and use it to make others feel bad, then I choose to call you out on it. So be it!
You have done the same to Cagefighter. Maybe YOU need to look in the mirror, and realize that other people's feelings are just as valid as yours.
t
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Christ Alone
Talesin I am a believer and cofty has been nothing but respectful and kind with me. He's been more patient with me and my questions about his view than I could have expected. I haven't seen this scorn towards believers that you are claiming of him. Maybe he's been scornful towards attitudes not someone just because they believe in a higher power.
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cofty
Talesin you accused me of an "EXTREME reaction" and said I had accused you of martyrhood.
I knew I had done no such thing and when we looked at the thread from 5 months ago it turned out you were making a ridiculous exaggeration.
In my opinion you were making a morally questionable decision and I said so calmly and reasonably on thread that was inviting our ethical judgements.
I would strongly stand by my reply - your motive may be laudable but humans are not commodities whatever their circumstances. If you want to debate that please feel free to resurrect the thread.
As for your opinion of my style in discussing things with believers, your judgement that I lack empathy and any other negative views you have of me I really couldn't care less.
Some believers don't like me - so what? When I was a christian I wouldn't have been too keen on me either. Popularity is not high on my agenda. As an ex-christian I relate very well to the thinking, fears, emotions and misaprehensions of the faithful. I state my case clearly and listen carefully to opposing points. I have had plenty of feedback from others who have been helped by my posts. If others find my style too blunt then hopefully they will reate to others. Everybody who knows me in my personal life knows your judgement that I lack empathy couldn't be more wrong.
If you choose to take your pain, and use it to make others feel bad, then I choose to call you out on it.
I don't know what you mean but it sounds like a lame attempt to start an argument.
You don't like me - I get it. I have nothing against you apart from the fact you keep ranting at me because you don't like me.
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moshe
Faders have yet to make that critical decision, which is the decision that can't be undone= do I officially quit? What will I do then? will my life be any better? How will I cope without a family support system, when they are shunning me? Will my JW family ever recognize me as a decent human being again?-- on and on, the unanswered 'what-ifs' build up. The fader fears the what-ifs more than they desire personal freedom and being true to their own beliefs.
Putting off that critical decison is temporary, they think, until such time as they can figure out how to get a winning ticket, without risking anything. The failure to take a personal stand plays into the hand of the JWs and increases their leverage over you, making it harder to escape- time is not your friend- you can't go back and recover the best years of your life.
cagefighter is his own man and he can hold his head high- have a good journey!
To thine own self be true- if you can say that you have achieved personal freedom.
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I do agree that this place is a faders hangout, but then it makes sense that faders need this forum as a support group more than someone who has successfully quit the KH, needs this forum to brag about how great their life on the outside is.
well, I have to go- another trick or treater at the door--maybe they came to your house, too-
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cofty
Thanks CA - I admit I have zero tolerance for self-righteous sorts and little patience for willful ignorance but nobody will commit more time and effort to discussing thoughts with a believer who is sincere.
