Hello everyone, I have returned from out of town. S+G is a sorceress because she knew it was a BBQ without me actually saying it.
Sorry Sab, did I upset you with that comment? It was general, and not aimed at you.
It was not your comment alone that incensed my spirit, no, but the entire thread. In fact it bothers me that this thread even exists in the world, but as I have analyzed it I now see the reason for it's existence. I actually have had a few good laughs to myself about this thread over the weekend. Everytime I thought of Satan the Devil as a freedom fighter I couldn't help but burst into laughter. The laugher soon faded and was replaced with disdain and contempt for the very idea.
never ceases to amaze me how many 'believers' eventually resort to name-calling in these little debates.
blessing and a curse when you only have 'faith' on your side...and no facts.
Hello Unlearn and welcome to the forum. It's highly fallacious thinking of you of you to consider my post a retort at all. It's actually a conclusion rather than some sort of rebuttal or cross examination. Allow me to explain that conclusion before you accuse me of "resorting to ad hominem." (which is actually what you are doing by discounting the conclusion as one without evidence which is an attack on my character, but that's a digression).
Here is a list of some of the sympathies for the side of Satan that reside within this thread (it is very good for laughter):
my undisputed hero of the Bible is known by several names, depending on who you talk to...Devil, Satan, Lucifer, etc.
I have to say I agree. They phrased the story to keep us from thinking. Questioning is bad.
Certainly Satan/Devil/Lucifer/Azazel is the bible's hero! If all that BS was true, I'd take the devil's side.
Satan is a partisan, fighting the tyrant called "God" .. according to the Bible.
Satan is just a scapegoat used to blame all bad and wrongdoing upon him.
I would like to say that I have long believed Satan to be a more moral character than the Vengeful, control freak Jehovah, as depicted in the Bible.
If you compare the amount of humans that Satan kills in the Bible compared to Jehovah, its quite disturbing.
Satans reward to us was knowledge....gods reward to us....death/I mean resurrection
But I think Satan was kind of a hero, in a way.
Satan is NOT a hero or a moral character. What's happening here is a classic case of Youthful Folly:
YOUTHFUL FOLLY has success. It is not I who seek the young fool; The young fool seeks me. At the first oracle I inform him. If he asks two or three times, it is importunity. If he importunes, I give him no information. Perseverance furthers. In the time of youth, folly is not an evil. One may succeed in spite of it, provided one finds an experienced teacher and has the right attitude toward him. This means, first of all, that the youth himself must be conscious of his lack of experience and must seek out the teacher. Without this modesty and this interest there is no guarantee that he has the necessary receptivity, which should express itself in respectful acceptance of the teacher. This is the reason why the teacher must wait to be sought out instead of offering himself. Only thus can the instruction take place at the right time and in the right way. I CHING 4
Atheism is a youthful creed and the list of Satanic sympathies above is proof of it's folly. They are all spirit, have no modesty and tickle the ears of Satan in the process. If you look at the story as just a story, then for Christ's sake (literally!) at least get the characters right. Satan is the bad guy and it is clearly demonstrated in the Genesis account. However like everything in the damn book it's cryptic as in it's been encrypted into philosophy and allegory. Interpreting the Bible is akin to lock picking because the encryption methods have been lost. There are immeasureable amounts of methods and approaches that have been used and have fell short all throughout the ages. Once the Bible was rendered errant (it took a lot of dead zealots, whooee!) people should have started from Genesis 1:1 when the surge of data hit. Instead they "look back" like lot's wife. As in LIVING IN THE PAST. Instead the atheists look back and bring up the dead zealots and swear fealty to them! It truly is comic gold and when they grow up they will look back and laugh too. This group is YOUNG and therefore is acting out of Youthful Folly even though it would appear at first glance as the bowels of Satan himself. Satan a freedom fighter? HAHAHAHAHA!
Satan is known as the lier and deceiver, when did he lie and when did he deceive?
Satan is a liar because he lied in the Garden of Eden which may as well be a holodeck from Star Trek rather than a description of the events that followed the Big Bang. Genesis 1-2 are about the creation of existence, not the creation the universe. Genesis 1 states that the Earth is formless as in without form. So, the setting of the story is not within space and time, but the beginning of space and time. Therefore, when a "cunning serpent" comes waltzing on the stage you don't say it's a serpent from this world. In fact you don't say it's like anything from this world. That would be like a child interpretation. You also don't call who that serpent is speaking to from this world either. You simply call it the beginning. Which is without our rules which have been well established for eons. So established that we are able to study them with great accuracy enabling the human race to shape it's own future.
Shape our own future? That sounds like a fairyland! It also sounds like the end of the rainbow and that's what the Serpent wants: the future and he's wanted it ever since the beginning. What is his mode of operation however? EXPLOITING THE LOVE OF GOD!
Watch the Tobey Maguire Spider Man, the first one, if you haven't already. The scene where the Green Goblin makes Spider Man choose between the love of his life or a bunch of stangers is not a new trick. The second there was love their was going to be someone who eventually exploited it and that's why Satan is the next character introducted in Genesis 3. He's a main character in the Bible. He's the adversary (The Joker; Green Goblin; James Bond Villian).
Villians always start out as likable characters. They start out likable and with a genuine vision. However, the method of which they bring their vision about is by exploiting the love of honest people. God IS LOVE, that's what the book says. Love was first then love was exploited. So, what they are saying is that when humanity was in it's early state we didn't have war. We had love and then what happened to that love? It was exploited. It's the same story over and over and over. Until one day someone will look back and not be able to fathome the horrors that prededed them. "This too shall pass." That is the ultimate message of Revelation and the Bible as a whole. The former things will pass away because they always do.
So, what is the solution? The answer is in the movie as well. Spider Man has to create a new solution off the top of his head in the moment and saves both the group of people and the love of his life. We call that an act of valor, and it's the counter to exploiting love. Which comes from God, the originator of love. He loved his son before we loved ours, it's that simple. Eventually someone uses that love against you and an act of valor is required in order to set matters straight.
I can't understand how I EVER believed this wonky story. Even if I, for the sake of argument, allow that it happened, it is still the most ridiculous, confusing story out there. It makes absolutely no sense.
You are being more humble than the people siding with the Green Goblin. You see it for what it is, a folly.
Satan is no hero. He just knows how to play the game against God, is all.
Word, bro.
-Sab
