It makes no sense whatsoever that a" CREATOR" would only communicate with a minority of the population then put the onus on them to convey this life saving message to the WHOLE wide world

by smiddy 182 Replies latest jw experiences

  • tec
    tec

    Wait...so now you believe the Adam & Eve story? I thought you agreed in the past that these were allegorical people.

    I don't think I ever said what I believe about Adam and Eve. In truth, I am not sure. I have agreed that these COULD be allegorical people, or literal people, or a combination of the two (everyone/thing in that story represents something else, or some such version), or something I don't know about.

    So if God 'speaks' to fake people who are supposed to relay the 'message' to their 'fake' children, where does that leave us real people? Because if you're going to go back all the way to the Genesis tale to back up the argument that God HAS spoken to us, then I really don't understand your line of reasoning...*said with love*

    *received with love*

    :)

    In any case, God has and does speak to real people even today. I understand this to be through His Son, and spirit.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    TEC!!! come here and hug me

    *whispers: Adam and Eve weren't real* ::giggle::

  • tec
    tec

    It all comes back around to the bible being the one and only source of faith and belief, and that is way too flimsy a string to hang from.

    FAR too flimsy a string, agreed.

    If God is as powerful and all knowing as you believers claim he is, then sending a clear, concise and impossible to misinterpret message simultaneously to everyone on the planet should be a piece of cake.
    Should be, and I believe it'll happen one of these days, but not at the e x pense of harming any innocent person, or any who belong to Him.

    He does not force himself upon us (Israel, how I longed to gather your children... but you were not willing). That gets complaints. If he did force himself upon us, that would also get complaints. Since there seems to be no winning with us, lol... I guess He better do what He believes is right, and of love, and of mercy, and of justice.

    The bible says a lot of things about what God expects, and love isn't mentioned quite as often as you'd think - if that's really what he expects.

    Love God and love neighbor... two most important commandments. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you... ALL the law and prophets can be summed up in these. A new command I give you... love one another, as I have loved you. (Christ)

    Is the amount of times something gets mentioned, or the importance placed upon that thing, that counts?

    Yes, I know, I'm going to hear that 'no, I don't believe that the bible is the one and only source of faith and belief' but it really is. At least let's be honest about that...

    We are being honest about that. You don't have to take my word for that. Just think about it for a moment. IF the bible were the only source of faith and belief, then how did anything ever get written in the bible to begin with? How did people ever learn anything new, if it wasn't written down first? And how could it be written down, if it was not first 'heard'?

    Peace,

    Tammy

    *again, said with love*

  • tec
    tec

    I can't get that huggie smilie over here... so Poopsie.

  • 144001
    144001

    Tammy,

    I'm curious about your beliefs. Can you answer the questions below?

    1. True or false: Human mortality is attributable to the "original sin" (Adam eating apples recommended by a snake). If Adam hadn't eaten from the forbidden tree, his descendants would have not experienced mortality.

    2. True or false: Satan the Devil played a significant role in encouraging both Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit.

  • tec
    tec

    1. True or false: Human mortality is attributable to the "original sin" (Adam eating apples recommended by a snake). If Adam hadn't eaten from the forbidden tree, his descendants would have not experienced mortality.

    That is two statements. I'm not trying to be pedantic, but they might not be dependent upon one another.

    The first: true - since we were not 'born' in the garden of eden. We were born in the likeness of Adam and Eve once they were OUT of the garden. So into these garments of skin, and without the ability to move back into the garden and outside of it at will.

    The second: Unknown. Someone else born in the garden might or might not have made the same choice, leading to the same thing.

    2. True or false: Satan the Devil played a significant role in encouraging both Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit.

    He played a role. I don't know that it was more significant than Adam or Eve's own role.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    tec “I don't think I ever said what I believe about Adam and Eve. In truth, I am not sure. I have agreed that these COULD be allegorical people, or literal people, or a combination of the two (everyone/thing in that story represents something else, or some such version), or something I don't know about.”

    That just about covers all bases and leaves room for an entirely different game - evolution or even atheism perhaps? At this rate, God could simply be a mistranslation for Dog that wandered around Eden barking at naked people, literally, allegorically, or a combination of the two.

    I have tried to follow this debate but am unable to find a single comment that actually answers the question posed by the opening question; hence my reluctance to fully engage in serious debate - my apologies for interrupting. Please carry on.

  • N.drew
    N.drew
    that actually answers the question posed by the opening question;

    There is no question. If you see the question that I can not see, please share it with me. Thank you.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    It's the fault of a naked woman and piece of fruit?

    I can testify that a person can really get into some trouble with a naked woman.

    Now, the piece of fruit, that's a little kinky, but I'm game. (Strawberries maybe? With or without whipped creme?)

    ME BAD.

    Doc

  • mP
    mP

    @Tammy

    Christians are assuming Satan is involved but the scriptures themselves do not mention him by name. In fact he does not appear anywhere in Genesis. This problem occurs because Christians all think the ancient jews were monothiests, when they actually believed in many gods, just like all their neighbours.

    Elohim = gods in plural, xians tell you nonsense its the equivalent of a royal we, its not.

    Satan rarelly appears anywhere in the OT, Job is probably the only real example of him being actively involved. its very important to understand Satan just means opponent, thus many times a human is also said to be an opponent of gods will. THe same is also true in the NT, there is no Satan in Revelation, look below for more.

    LUCIFER

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/isa/chapter_014.htm

    12 “O how you have fallen from heaven, you shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, you who were disabling the nations! 13 As for you, you have said in your heart, ‘To the heavens I shall go up. Above the stars of God I shall lift up my throne, and I shall sit down upon the mountain of meeting, in the remotest parts of the north. 14 I shall go up above the high places of the clouds; I shall make myself resemble the Most High.’

    The prophet is actually talking about Venus which appears before the Sun each day. God is the Sun, the heavens are the abode of the gods.

    JOB

    The only real place Satan appears and actually does and says anything.

    REVELATION

    Firstly this book is not prophetic, its the story of an angry man who hates Nero and Rome. The number of the beast is just the name NERO

    All numbers is in greek have values and thus the letters of a name are also a number. hence nero = 666

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast

    Nrwn Qsr

    The Greek version of the name and title transliterates into Hebrew as ???? ???, and yields a numerical value of 666, [36] as shown:

    Resh (?)Samekh (?)Qoph (?)Nun (?)Vav (?)Resh (?)Nun (?)Sum
    2006010050620050666

    666

    The Number of the Beast is described in the passage of Revelation 13:15–18 and the actual number is only mentioned once, in verse 18. In the Greek manuscripts, the number is rendered in Greek numerical form as χξ?', [3] or sometimes literally as ?ξακ?σιοι ?ξ?κοντα ?ξ , hexakósioi hexekonta héx, "six hundred and sixty-six". [4] [5] There are several interpretations-translations for the meaning of the phrase "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast" where the peculiar Greek word ψηφισ?τω (psefisato) is used. Possible translations include not only "to count", "to reckon" but also "to vote" or "to decide". [6]

    Around 2005, a fragment from Papyrus 115 , taken from the Oxyrhynchus site, was discovered at the Oxford University ’s Ashmolean Museum . It gave the beast’s number as 616 . This fragment happens to be the oldest manuscript (about 1,700 years old) of Revelation 13 to date. [12] [13]

    We can see some ancient scriptures give 616 and 666 as the number. It all depends if you add an N which has a value of fifty to the end of Neros name.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet

    LetterCorresponding
    Phoenician
    letter
    NameTransliteration 1PronunciationNumeric
    value
    EnglishAncient
    Greek
    Medieval
    Greek
    (polytonic)
    Modern
    Greek
    (info)
    Ancient
    Greek
    Modern
    Greek
    Classical
    Ancient
    Greek
    Modern
    Greek
    Α αAleph AlephAlpha?λφα?λφαa[a] [a?][a]1
    Β βBeth BethBetaβ?ταβ?ταbv[b][v]2
    Γ γGimel GimelGammaγ?μμαγ?μ(μ)αggh, g, y[g][?], [?]3
    Δ δDaleth DalethDeltaδ?λταδ?λταdd, dh[d][ð]4
    Ε εHe HeEpsilonε?? ψιλ?ν?ψιλονe[e]5
    Ζ ζZayin ZayinZetaζ?ταζ?ταz[zd, dz, z?] (?)[z]7
    Η ηHeth HethEta?τα?ταe, ei[??][i]8
    Θ θTeth TethThetaθ?ταθ?ταth[t?][θ]9
    Ι ιYodh YodhIota??τα(γ)ι?ταi[i] [i?][i], [?]10
    Κ κKaph KaphKappaκ?ππακ?π(π)αk[k][k], [c]20
    Λ λLamedh LamedhLambdaλ?βδαλ?μβδαλ?μ(β)δαl[l]30
    Μ μMem MemMuμ?μι/μυm[m]40
    Ν νNun NunNuν?νι/νυn[n]50
    Ξ ξSamekh SamekhXiξε?ξ?ξιxx, ks[ks]60
    Ο οAyin 'AyinOmicronο?? μικρ?ν?μικρονo[o]70
    Π πPe PePiπε?π?πιp[p]80
    Ρ ρRes ReshRho??ρωr, rhr[r] , [r?][r]100
    Σ σ ςSin SinSigmaσ?γμασ?γμαs[s]200
    Τ τTaw TawTauτα?ταυt[t]300
    Υ υWaw WawUpsilon?/?? ψιλ?ν?ψιλονu, yy, v, f[?(?)], [y(?)][i]400
    Φ φorigin debatedPhiφε?φ?φιphf[p?][f]500
    Χ χChiχε?χ?χιchch, kh[k?][x], [ç]600
    Ψ ψPsiψε?ψ?ψιps[ps]700
    Ω ωAyin 'AyinOmega?? μ?γαωμ?γαo, oo[??][o]800

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2245/whats-up-with-666-the-mark-of-the-beast

    The symbology is nearly all Nero. Back in his day it was believed he was resurrected and came back, this is the story of the anti christ. The 7 and 10 are because Nero was the 7th caesar etc. I cant recall the exact symbology but there are many books and websites that can walk you through it.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit